TED2011
Julie Taymor: Spider-Man, The Lion King and life on the creative edge
朱丽·泰莫: Julie Taymor: Spider-Man, The Lion King and life on the creative edge朱丽·泰莫：《蜘蛛侠》、《狮子王》和艺术创造边缘的生活
Filmed:
Readability: 3.2
1,034,077 views
通过展示视频片段，诸如《弗里达》、《暴风雨》和《狮子王》等，导演朱丽·泰莫描绘了她所沉浸的剧院和电影院世界里的生活。当她的百老汇作品《蜘蛛侠：关闭黑暗》正处在争议的风口浪尖时，我们拍摄了这个视频。她坦率地描述了她创作历程中内心的不安——在竭力把握故事的精髓的同时创造一种全新的画面和体验。
Julie Taymor - Director, designer
Julie Taymor is a film, theater and opera director. She is known for lavish movies such as Frida and for her hit Broadway musicals, The Lion King and Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark. Full bio
Julie Taymor is a film, theater and opera director. She is known for lavish movies such as Frida and for her hit Broadway musicals, The Lion King and Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
(Music)
0
1889
5963
（音乐）
00:19
["Oedipus Rex"]
1
7852
3946
《俄狄甫斯王》
00:27
["The Lion King"]
2
15397
3208
《狮子王》
00:34
["Titus"]
3
22485
4432
《狄多的仁慈》（根据古罗马皇帝狄多改编，莫扎特晚年歌剧作品）
00:49
["Frida"]
4
37727
5853
《弗里达》
01:05
["The Magic Flute"]
5
53751
4474
《魔笛》
01:12
["Across The Universe"]
6
60197
6161
《穿越苍穹》
01:27
(Applause)
7
75710
4552
（掌声）
01:32
Julie Taymor: Thank you. Thank you very much.
8
80262
2207
朱丽·泰莫：谢谢，谢谢
01:34
That's a few samples of the theater, opera
9
82469
2717
以上这些是我20年来
01:37
and films that I have done over the last 20 years.
10
85186
3342
执导的一些戏剧、歌剧和电影的节选片段
01:40
But what I'd like to begin with right now
11
88528
2038
但是我想以多年前
01:42
is to take you back to a moment
12
90566
1903
我在印度尼西亚的一段亲身经历
01:44
that I went through in Indonesia,
13
92469
2465
作为今天演讲的开头
01:46
which is a seminal moment in my life
14
94934
2137
那是我生命中具有开创性意义的一段经历
01:49
and, like all myths,
15
97071
2080
就像所有神话故事
01:51
these stories need to be retold
16
99151
2255
需要不断地口口相传
01:53
and told, lest we forget them.
17
101406
2499
才不至于被人们所遗忘
01:55
And when I'm in the turbulent times, as we know,
18
103905
3024
在我创作的日子里并不是那么一帆风顺，你们也知道
01:58
that I am right now, through the crucible
19
106929
2388
其实现在也还是，我经历了各种严峻的考验
02:01
and the fire of transformation,
20
109317
2191
和之后的浴火重生
02:03
which is what all of you do, actually.
21
111508
2618
事实上这也是你们正在经历的
02:06
Anybody who creates knows there's that point where
22
114126
3124
任何从事创作的人都知道，总有那么一个浴火的时期
02:09
it hasn't quite become the phoenix or the burnt char.
23
117250
5109
你要嘛变成火凤凰，要嘛被烤成一块焦炭
02:14
(Laughter)
24
122359
2098
（笑声）
02:16
And I am right there on the edge,
25
124457
2905
而且我正处在这个时期内，
02:19
which I'll tell you about, another story.
26
127362
1770
具体到时我会给你们讲另外一个故事
02:21
I want to go back to Indonesia
27
129132
1422
我想先回到印度尼西亚的故事上，
02:22
where I was about 21, 22 years, a long time ago,
28
130554
3922
那是很久以前了，当时我差不多二十一二岁
02:26
on a fellowship.
29
134476
1224
在印尼用奖学金留学
02:27
And I found myself, after two years there
30
135700
2930
在巴厘岛演出和学习了两年之后
02:30
and performing and learning, on the island of Bali,
31
138630
3349
我在一座叫巴图尔的火山口
02:33
on the edge of a crater, Gunung Batur.
32
141979
3827
找寻了到自我
02:37
And I was in a village where there was
33
145806
3017
当时我所在的村子里
02:40
an initiation ceremony for the young men,
34
148823
2792
有一种为年轻男性而设的仪式
02:43
a rite of passage.
35
151615
1564
即男子成年礼
02:45
Little did I know that it was mine as well.
36
153179
2552
我完全不知道那也竟成了我的“成年礼”
02:47
And as I sat in this temple square
37
155731
2459
当时我坐在寺庙广场
02:50
under this gigantic beringin banyan tree,
38
158190
3000
一棵大榕树下
02:53
in the dark, there was no electricity, just the full moon,
39
161190
4837
四周没有灯光，一片漆黑，只有一轮圆月
02:58
down in this empty square,
40
166027
2056
皎洁地照在空旷的广场
03:00
and I heard the most beautiful sounds,
41
168083
2150
而且我还听见了世上最美妙的声音
03:02
like a Charles Ives concert
42
170233
1831
当我听到
03:04
as I listened to the gamelan music
43
172064
2043
五年一度的典礼上村民们
03:06
from all the different villagers that came
44
174107
2049
演奏的甘美兰音乐时（印尼管弦乐器）
03:08
for this once-every-five-years ceremony.
45
176156
3398
就像听着查尔斯·艾夫斯的音乐会（美国古典音乐作曲家）
03:11
And I thought I was alone in the dark under this tree.
46
179554
3595
我以为漆黑的树下只有我一个人
03:15
And all of a sudden, out of the dark,
47
183149
2831
但突然之间
03:17
from the other end of the square,
48
185980
1884
在广场对面的夜幕里
03:19
I saw the glint of mirrors lit by the moon.
49
187864
3908
我看到月光照耀下，有东西像镜子一样闪闪反光
03:23
And these 20 old men who I'd seen before
50
191772
3559
突然有二十个我之前都见过的老人
03:27
all of a sudden stood up in these full warrior costumes
51
195331
5302
身着勇士服
03:32
with the headdress and the spears,
52
200633
2485
顶戴头饰，手持长矛站了出来
03:35
and no one was in the square, and I was hidden in the shadows.
53
203118
4362
当时广场上空无一人，而我也躲在树影里
03:39
No one was there, and they came out,
54
207480
2361
没有人在那观赏，他们就这样冒出来
03:41
and they did this incredible dance.
55
209841
3639
跳起了让人难以置信的舞蹈
03:45
"Huhuhuhuhuhuhuhahahahaha."
56
213480
3692
呼呼呼呼呼呼呼哈哈哈哈
03:49
And they moved their bodies and they came forward,
57
217172
3173
他们左右摇摆，身体前倾
03:52
and the lights bounced off these costumes.
58
220345
2802
月光在他们服装上跳动闪耀着
03:55
And I've been in theater since I was 11 years old,
59
223147
3416
我从11岁起，就开始在剧院里
03:58
and performing, creating, and I went,
60
226563
3214
参加演出，编写剧本，我就想
04:01
"Who are they performing for
61
229777
2143
他们身着盛装
04:03
with these elaborate costumes,
62
231920
2347
戴上如此别致的头饰
04:06
these extraordinary headdresses?"
63
234267
2027
到底是表演给谁看啊
04:08
And I realized that they were performing for God,
64
236294
4787
之后我意识到，他们是表演给神明看
04:13
whatever that means.
65
241081
2711
虽然我也不知道其意义是什么
04:15
But somehow, it didn't matter about the publicity.
66
243792
3588
不知为何，这个表演既不是公开的
04:19
There was no money involved.
67
247380
2251
也不关钱的事儿
04:21
It wasn't going to be written down. It was no news.
68
249631
3220
没人会将其记录下来
这也不是啥新鲜事儿
这也不是啥新鲜事儿
04:24
And there were these incredible artists
69
252851
2146
但当这些伟大的艺术家们表演的时候
04:26
that felt for me like an eternity as they performed.
70
254997
3501
我感觉到了一种永恒与不朽
04:30
The next moment,
71
258498
2085
过了一会儿
04:32
as soon as they finished and disappeared into the shadows,
72
260583
4060
他们结束了表演，消失在对面的黑暗中
04:36
a young man with a propane lantern came on,
73
264643
2506
一个年轻人提着一个油灯出现了
04:39
hung it up on a tree, set up a curtain.
74
267149
2251
他把灯挂在树上后又弄了一片幕布
04:41
The village square was filled with hundreds of people.
75
269400
3461
小小的乡村广场上挤满了几百号人
04:44
And they put on an opera all night long.
76
272861
2538
他们整夜都在表演歌剧
04:47
Human beings needed the light.
77
275399
2260
人类需要光
04:49
They needed the light to see.
78
277659
2637
没有光，人类就看不见
04:52
So what I gained and gathered from this incredible,
79
280296
3648
所以作为一个年轻的艺术家
04:55
seminal moment in my life as a young artist
80
283944
2612
我从这个对我具有开创性意义时刻学到的是
04:58
was that you must be true
81
286556
3323
一个艺术家必须
05:01
to what you believe as an artist all the way through,
82
289879
4072
对自己的信仰始终坚贞如一
05:05
but you also have to be aware
83
293951
3539
但同时还要明白
05:09
that the audience is out there in our lives at this time,
84
297490
3489
这一刻，我们生活里的观众在看着我们
05:12
and they also need the light.
85
300979
1371
他们同样需要光亮
05:14
And it's this incredible balance
86
302350
2197
我想我们就一直走在这种
05:16
that I think that we walk
87
304547
1749
微妙的平衡上
05:18
when we are creating something that is breaking ground,
88
306296
3333
当我们试着创作一些新的东西
05:21
that's trying to do something you've never seen before,
89
309629
2654
当我们尝试做一些前所未见的事情
05:24
that imaginary world
90
312283
1686
就像一个我们
05:25
where you actually don't know where you're going to end up,
91
313969
3377
不知该在哪儿停下的天马行空的世界
05:29
that's the fine line on the edge of a crater
92
317346
2766
这种平衡就是火山口那细线般的边缘
05:32
that I have walked my whole life.
93
320112
2630
而我一生都在这种边缘上行走
05:34
What I would like to do now is to tell you
94
322742
2548
现在我想介绍
05:37
a little bit
95
325290
1806
一些关于我工作上的事情
05:39
about how I work. Let's take "The Lion King."
96
327096
2857
我们以《狮子王》为例
05:41
You saw many examples of my work up there,
97
329953
2252
你们刚刚也看到了我的一些作品
05:44
but it's one that people know.
98
332205
1945
但《狮子王》的知名度高一些
05:46
I start with the notion of the ideograph.
99
334150
2699
首先我要先说说”象形“
05:48
An ideograph is like a brush painting, a Japanese brush painting.
100
336849
3375
所谓的“象形”就像毛笔画，日本水墨画那样
05:52
Three strokes, you get the whole bamboo forest.
101
340224
3509
三两笔就能勾画出一片竹林
05:55
I go to the concept of "The Lion King"
102
343733
2531
这使我联想到《狮子王》的概念
05:58
and I say, "What is the essence of it?
103
346264
2068
我想，它的本质是什么
06:00
What is the abstraction?
104
348332
1636
它的抽象概念是什么
06:01
If I were to reduce this entire story
105
349968
3261
如果我要把整个故事浓缩到一幅图里
06:05
into one image, what would it be?"
106
353229
2741
这幅图该是什么样子
06:07
The circle. The circle. It's so obvious.
107
355970
2954
答案是圆，就是圆，显而易见
06:10
The circle of life. The circle of Mufasa's mask.
108
358924
3977
《生生不息》的圆（狮子王片头曲，获奥斯卡最佳原创歌曲），
狮王木法沙面具的圆
狮王木法沙面具的圆
06:14
The circle that, when we come to Act II and there's a drought,
109
362901
4540
我们表演第二幕时
有一个干旱的场景
有一个干旱的场景
06:19
how do you express drought?
110
367441
1479
你们会怎么表现干旱
06:20
It's a circle of silk on the floor
111
368920
3159
圆，我们用丝带围成了一个圆
06:24
that disappears into the hole in the stage floor.
112
372079
4054
然后像水一样逐渐从舞台上的洞里消失
06:28
The circle of life comes in the wheels
113
376133
2629
生命的圆伴随着
06:30
of the gazelles that leap.
114
378762
2448
跳跃的瞪羚一起出现
06:33
And you see the mechanics.
115
381210
1722
我们就是这样排演的
06:34
And being a theater person, what I know and love about the theater
116
382932
3378
作为一个戏剧人，我对戏剧的了解和热爱在于
06:38
is that when the audience comes in
117
386310
1695
当观众入场后
06:40
and they suspend their disbelief,
118
388005
1794
他们会把怀疑放在一边
06:41
when you see men walking or women walking
119
389799
2835
当你看见人在舞台上行走
06:44
with a platter of grass on their heads,
120
392634
1897
头上顶着个长满草的帽子
06:46
you know it's the savanna.
121
394531
1616
你就知道那是热带草原
06:48
You don't question that.
122
396147
1544
人们并不会去怀疑
06:49
I love the apparent truth of theater.
123
397691
2484
我热爱剧院里这个浅显的事实
06:52
I love that people are willing to fill in the blanks.
124
400175
3597
我热爱人们乐意自行脑补空白
06:55
The audience is willing to say,
125
403772
2020
观众会乐意说
06:57
"Oh, I know that's not a real sun.
126
405792
3000
好吧，我知道那个太阳是假的
07:00
You took pieces of sticks.
127
408792
2308
你们用一些小木条
07:03
You added silk to the bottom.
128
411100
2095
和丝带固定在它的底部
07:05
You suspended these pieces. You let it fall flat on the floor.
129
413195
3704
先放平在舞台上，然后用绳子吊着，
07:08
And as it rises with the strings, I see that it's a sun.
130
416899
4403
当道具随着绳子升起的时候，
我知道那是代表太阳
我知道那是代表太阳
07:13
But the beauty of it is that it's just silk and sticks.
131
421302
4407
但美就美在那仅仅是丝带和小木条做的
07:17
And in a way, that is what makes it spiritual.
132
425709
4552
某种程度上
这种象征性精神上的太阳
这种象征性精神上的太阳
07:22
That's what moves you.
133
430261
1445
才是触动你的地方
07:23
It's not the actual literal sunrise that's coming.
134
431706
4216
那个场景并不是真正的日出
07:27
It's the art of it.
135
435922
1531
而是表演艺术上的日出
07:29
So in the theater, as much as the story is critical
136
437453
5360
所以在戏剧里
故事本身当然关键
故事本身当然关键
07:34
and the book and the language,
137
442813
1905
剧本、对白
07:36
the telling of the story, how it's told,
138
444718
4651
故事的阐述和解读
07:41
the mechanics, the methods that you use,
139
449369
3618
排演的手法和方式
07:44
is equal to the story itself.
140
452987
2599
也都和故事本身一样重要
07:47
And I'm one who loves high tech and low tech.
141
455586
3338
我是个既爱高科技也爱低科技的人
07:50
So I could go from --
142
458924
1799
所以我可以从······
07:52
For instance, I'll show you some "Spider-Man" later,
143
460723
2206
比如，我待会儿会给你们展示《蜘蛛侠》
07:54
these incredible machines that move people along.
144
462929
2871
这些能让人飞来飞去的吊威亚机器
07:57
But the fact is, without the dancer
145
465800
2366
但事实上如果舞者们
08:00
who knows how to use his body and swing on those wires,
146
468166
2753
不懂如何运用肢体
和怎么吊威亚
和怎么吊威亚
08:02
it's nothing.
147
470919
1787
一切都是空谈
08:04
So now I'm going to show you
148
472706
2909
现在我们来看一个视频剪辑
08:07
some clips from the other big project of my life this year,
149
475615
4318
来自我今年的另外一个大项目
08:11
"The Tempest."
150
479933
1042
——《暴风雨》（莎士比亚的著作）
08:12
It's a movie. I did "The Tempest" on a stage three times
151
480975
4093
这是一部电影
自1984、1986年以来
自1984、1986年以来
08:17
in the theater since 1984, '86,
152
485068
3237
我共执导过三次《暴风雨》的戏剧
08:20
and I love the play.
153
488305
2204
我特别喜欢那个剧本
08:22
I did it always with a male Prospero.
154
490509
2526
我执导的时候总是让男演员扮演普洛斯彼罗
（普洛斯彼罗：戏剧《暴风雨》中的主角）
（普洛斯彼罗：戏剧《暴风雨》中的主角）
08:25
And all of a sudden, I thought,
155
493035
1662
有次我心血来潮想
08:26
"Well, who am I gonna get to play Prospero?
156
494697
2086
让谁扮演普洛斯彼罗合适呢
08:28
Why not Helen Mirren? She's a great actor. Why not?"
157
496783
3722
为什么不找海伦·米伦呢
她是个好演员啊，为什么不呢
她是个好演员啊，为什么不呢
08:32
And this material really did work for a woman equally as well.
158
500505
3260
电影里把话剧男性主人公改编成女性其实也行得通的（详见电影《暴风雨》）
08:35
So now, let's take a look at some of the images
159
503765
3095
所以，现在我们来看一下
08:38
from "The Tempest."
160
506860
1993
《暴风雨》里的一些场景
08:40
(Music)
161
508853
4983
（音乐）
08:57
(Video) Prospera: Hast thou, spirit, performed to the point the tempest that I bade thee?
162
525220
3752
普洛斯佩拉：幽灵，你有没有照我的命令操纵暴风雨
09:00
Ariel: I boarded the king's ship. In every cabin, I flamed amazement.
163
528972
5508
艾瑞尔：我上了国王的船，每个船舱都充满了烈火的尖叫
09:09
Prospera: At first sight, they have changed eyes.
164
537664
2956
普洛斯佩拉：他们一见倾心
09:12
Miranda: Do you love me?
165
540620
1195
米兰达：你爱我吗
09:13
Ferdinand: Beyond all limit.
166
541815
1376
腓迪南：至死不渝
09:15
HM: They are both in either's powers.
167
543191
2592
海伦·米伦：他们已经离不开彼此了
09:17
Trinculo: Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows.
168
545783
5131
特林鸠罗：同床异梦，方晓痛苦
09:22
(Music)
169
550914
3242
（音乐）
09:26
Looking for business, governor?
170
554156
3477
大人，要找点儿乐子吗
09:29
Caliban: Hast thou not dropped from heaven?
171
557633
2002
卡利班：你们是从天堂来的吗
09:31
Stephano: Out of the moon, I do assure thee.
172
559635
2555
斯特凡诺：从月亮上来，我向你保证
09:34
Prospera: Caliban!
173
562190
1997
普洛斯佩拉：卡利班！
09:36
Caliban: This island is mine.
174
564187
2265
卡利班：这岛是我的！
09:38
Prospera: For this, be sure, tonight thou shalt have cramps.
175
566452
3545
普洛斯佩拉：我可以保证，今晚你将全身绞痛痉挛
09:41
Antonio: Here lies your brother no better than the earth he lies upon.
176
569997
3509
安东尼奥：你的兄长身死此地，与地上泥土毫无异处
09:45
Sebastian: Draw thy sword.
177
573506
1799
塞巴斯蒂安：拔剑吧
09:47
And I, the king, shall love thee.
178
575305
3609
我会以国王的身份敬爱你
09:50
Prospera: I will plague them all, even to roaring.
179
578914
5386
普洛斯佩拉：我要折磨他们，直到他们歇斯底里
09:58
Ariel: I have made you mad.
180
586133
4573
艾瑞尔：我已经让你们疯狂了
10:08
Prospera: We are such stuff as dreams are made on.
181
596874
3045
普洛斯佩拉：我们不过是编织幻想的材料
10:11
and our little life is rounded with a sleep.
182
599919
4211
而且我们卑微的生活不过是黄粱一梦
10:16
(Music)
183
604130
5325
（音乐）
10:21
JT: Okay.
184
609455
2850
好了
10:24
(Applause)
185
612305
3974
（掌声）
10:28
So I went from theater, doing "The Tempest"
186
616279
2428
很多年前，我从剧院舞台上
10:30
on the stage in a very low-budget production
187
618707
2324
以低预算投入
10:33
many years ago,
188
621031
1638
执导《暴风雨》戏剧
10:34
and I love the play, and I also think
189
622669
2445
我喜欢那个剧本，同时我想
10:37
it's Shakespeare's last play,
190
625114
2024
那可是莎士比亚的最后一个剧本啊
10:39
and it really lends itself, as you can see, to cinema.
191
627138
3680
而且你们也看到了
它非常适合拍成电影
它非常适合拍成电影
10:42
But I'm just going to give you a little example about
192
630818
2275
但是我想给你们举一些例子
10:45
how one stages it in theater
193
633093
2178
关于怎样让它在剧院舞台演出
10:47
and then how one takes that same idea or story
194
635271
4061
还有怎样把同样的想法或故事
10:51
and moves it into cinema.
195
639332
2992
搬到电影荧幕上
10:54
The ideograph that I talked to you about before,
196
642324
3096
刚才我们提到了“象形文字”
10:57
what is it for "The Tempest"?
197
645420
2111
那《暴风雨》的象形是什么呢
10:59
What, if I were to boil it down,
198
647531
2826
如果我讲这个故事浓缩成一幅图
11:02
would be the one image that I could
199
650357
2313
那是怎样一幅图
11:04
hang my hat on for this?
200
652670
2247
才适合我的想法呢
11:06
And it was the sand castle,
201
654917
2288
这个意象就是沙堡
11:09
the idea of nurture versus nature,
202
657205
3140
关于先天自然和后天培养
11:12
that we build these civilizations --
203
660345
2455
我们所建造的这些文明成果
11:14
she speaks about it at the end, Helen Mirren's Prospera --
204
662800
2955
海伦·米伦（普洛斯佩拉扮演者）在最后说到
11:17
we build them, but under nature, under the grand tempest,
205
665755
5473
我们后天建造了它们，但在大自然下，在暴风雨之下
11:23
these cloud-capped towers, these gorgeous palaces will fade
206
671228
5495
这些高耸入云的巨塔，这些富丽堂皇的宫殿终将会如沙堡般逐渐崩坏
11:28
and there will -- leave not a rack behind.
207
676723
4223
连一点废墟的痕迹也没有留下
11:32
So in the theater, I started the play,
208
680946
2629
所以，我在戏剧里是这样开场的
11:35
it was a black sand rake, white cyc,
209
683575
3062
一块黑色的沙地
一块白色幕布
一块白色幕布
11:38
and there was a little girl, Miranda, on the horizon,
210
686637
2925
一个叫米兰达的小女孩正在舞台边上
11:41
building a drip castle, a sand castle.
211
689562
2668
堆着沙堡
11:44
And as she was there on the edge of that stage,
212
692230
3440
当她在舞台的边上时
11:47
two stagehands all in black
213
695670
3361
两个全身黑衣的舞台工作人员
11:51
with watering cans ran along the top
214
699031
4504
手提喷壶沿着幕前走
11:55
and started to pour water on the sand castle,
215
703535
4627
然后开始往沙堡上倒水
12:00
and the sand castle started to drip and sink,
216
708162
2770
沙堡开始漏水倒塌
12:02
but before it did,
217
710932
1399
但在沙堡崩坏前
12:04
the audience saw the black-clad stagehands.
218
712331
4240
观众看见了这两个身着黑衣的工作人员
12:08
The medium was apparent. It was banal. We saw it.
219
716571
4587
这个方法很明显，很老套
我们都见过
我们都见过
12:13
But as they started to pour the water,
220
721158
2983
但当他们开始倒水的时候
12:16
the light changed from showing you the black-clad stagehands
221
724141
3732
灯光从这两个舞台人员身上聚焦到
12:19
to focusing, this rough magic that we do in theater,
222
727873
3314
喷水壶倒出的水上，
12:23
it focused right on the water itself.
223
731187
3553
这个戏剧里的老套把戏再粗浅不过了
12:26
And all of a sudden, the audience's perspective changes.
224
734740
4222
但是在那一瞬间，
观众的视角突然也跟着改变了
观众的视角突然也跟着改变了
12:30
It becomes something magically large.
225
738962
3506
它好像被魔法般放大
12:34
It becomes the rainstorm.
226
742468
2632
仿佛真的成了暴风雨
12:37
The masked actors, the puppeteers, they disappear,
227
745100
3644
戴面具的演员和傀儡师都消失了
12:40
and the audience makes that leap into this world,
228
748744
3200
观众的思维也跳跃到了这个世界里
12:43
into this imaginary world of "The Tempest" actually happening.
229
751944
4323
跳到这个“暴风雨”正在肆虐的想象世界里
12:48
Now the difference
230
756267
1429
在电影中
12:49
when I went and did it in the cinema,
231
757696
2603
我则采取了不同的手法
12:52
I started the actual movie
232
760299
2384
我以一个黑色沙堡的特写镜头
12:54
with a close-up of a sand castle, a black sand castle,
233
762683
5282
作为这部电影的开幕
12:59
and what cinema can do is,
234
767965
1838
拍摄电影时就是可以
13:01
by using camera, perspective,
235
769803
3456
运用摄像机的不同视角
13:05
and also long shots and close-ups,
236
773259
2742
同时还有远景镜头和特写镜头
13:08
it started on a close-up of the sand castle,
237
776001
2319
电影以沙堡的特写镜头开始
13:10
and as it pulled away,
238
778320
1883
然后镜头拉远
13:12
you saw that it was a miniature sitting in the palm
239
780203
3034
你们会发现那其实是
13:15
of the girl's hands.
240
783237
1903
一个放在女孩儿手上的微缩模型
13:17
And so I could play with the medium,
241
785140
1828
所以我能随心所欲地运用这些方法
13:18
and why I move from one medium to another
242
786968
2952
我从一个方法换到另一个方法
13:21
is to be able to do this.
243
789920
1483
就是为了达到这个目的
13:23
Now I'm going to take you to "Spider-Man."
244
791403
2431
现在我给你们展示《蜘蛛侠》
13:25
(Music)
245
793834
3836
（音乐）
13:56
(Video) Peter Parker: ♪ Standing on the precipice,
246
824794
2827
彼得·帕克：站在悬崖之边
13:59
I can soar away from this. ♪
247
827621
4479
我能在此冲上云霄
14:04
JT: We're trying to do everything in live theater
248
832100
2100
我们正在立体剧院里尝试一些新方法
14:06
that you can't do in two dimensions
249
834200
1919
那些方法不能用二维平面媒体表现出来
14:08
in film and television.
250
836119
2784
像是电影和电视
14:10
PP: ♪ Rise above yourself and take control. ♪
251
838903
3930
超越自我，掌握一切
14:14
George Tsypin: We're looking at New York from a Spider-Man point of view.
252
842833
3396
乔治·希平：我们正从蜘蛛侠的视角看纽约
14:18
Spider Man is not bound by gravity.
253
846229
2250
蜘蛛侠不受引力控制
14:20
Manhattan in the show is not bound by gravity either.
254
848479
3158
戏里的曼哈顿也摆脱了地心引力
14:23
PP: ♪ Be yourself and rise above it all. ♪
255
851637
4219
彼得·帕克：做好自己，然后超越一切
14:27
Ensemble: ♪ Sock! Pow! ♪
256
855856
4103
和声：碰！啪！
14:31
♪ Slam! Scratch! ♪
257
859959
2585
砰！擦！
14:34
Danny Ezralow: I don't want you to even think there's a choreographer.
258
862544
2201
丹尼·艾佐罗：我不想你们认为那经过精心编排
14:36
It's real, what's happening.
259
864745
1126
那些真实的，正在发生的事情
14:37
I prefer you to see people moving,
260
865871
2873
我更喜欢你们看到人物移动
14:40
and you're going, "Whoa, what was that?"
261
868744
2186
然后说：“哇哦，那是个啥”
14:42
(Music)
262
870930
12221
（音乐）
14:55
JT: If I give enough movement in the sculpture,
263
883151
2084
朱丽·泰莫：如果我给这个雕塑足够多的动作
14:57
and the actor moves their head, you feel like it's alive.
264
885235
3191
然后演员晃动头部
你会感觉那就是个活生生的人
你会感觉那就是个活生生的人
15:00
It's really comic book live. It's a comic book coming alive.
265
888426
2950
这的确是漫画直播
栩栩如生真人版的漫画
栩栩如生真人版的漫画
15:03
(Music)
266
891376
7201
（音乐）
15:10
Bono: They're mythologies.
267
898577
1162
博诺：这些漫画英雄
15:11
They're modern myths, these comic book heroes.
268
899739
3626
是神话，是现代神话
15:15
PP: ♪ They believe. ♪
269
903365
5963
彼得·帕克：他们相信
15:21
(Screams)
270
909328
3677
（尖叫）
15:25
(Music)
271
913005
5518
（音乐）
15:42
(Applause)
272
930766
2268
（掌声）
15:45
JT: Ohhhh. What was that?
273
933034
4610
朱丽·泰莫：哇哦，那是个啥
15:49
Circus, rock 'n' roll, drama.
274
937644
2271
马戏、摇滚、戏剧
15:51
What the hell are we doing up there on that stage?
275
939915
2842
我们TMD到底在那舞台干啥呀
15:54
Well, one last story, very quickly.
276
942757
2662
好吧，最后一个故事，很快就讲完
15:57
After I was in that village, I crossed the lake,
277
945419
2870
在我离开那个村子后，我穿过那个湖
16:00
and I saw that the volcano was erupting
278
948289
3089
看见另一边的火山在喷发
16:03
on the other side, Gunung Batur,
279
951378
1753
也就是巴图尔火山
16:05
and there was a dead volcano next to the live volcano.
280
953131
3085
它旁边有座死火山
16:08
I didn't think I'd be swallowed by the volcano,
281
956216
2021
我从没想过会被火山吞没
16:10
and I am here.
282
958237
1586
而且我现在在这儿
16:11
But it's very easy to climb up, is it not?
283
959823
3937
但是很容易就能爬上去，对吧？
16:15
You hold on to the roots,
284
963760
1585
只要紧紧抓住树根
16:17
you put your foot in the little rocks
285
965345
3200
把脚稳稳放在小石头间
16:20
and climb up there, and you get to the top,
286
968545
2582
不断往上爬
然后就能达到顶点
然后就能达到顶点
16:23
and I was with a good friend who was an actor,
287
971127
2290
我当时和一个演员朋友一起
16:25
and we said, "Let's go up there.
288
973417
2020
我们说，我们上去吧
16:27
Let's see if we can come close to the edge
289
975437
2048
看看我们能不能接近
16:29
of that live volcano."
290
977485
2136
巴图尔火山口边缘
16:31
And we climbed up and we got to the very top,
291
979621
2852
然后我们爬了上去，到达山顶时候
16:34
and we're on the edge, on this precipice,
292
982473
2505
我们真是在火山口边，悬崖之边
16:36
Roland disappears into the sulfur smoke
293
984978
2413
罗兰消失在火山口另一端的
16:39
at the volcano at the other end,
294
987391
1937
硫磺烟雾之中
16:41
and I'm up there alone
295
989328
1842
我孤零零一个人
16:43
on this incredible precipice.
296
991170
2736
面对着这不可置信的悬崖绝壁
16:45
Did you hear the lyrics?
297
993906
1621
注意到刚才的歌词了吧
16:47
I'm on the precipice looking down
298
995527
2326
我从火山悬崖上往下看
16:49
into a dead volcano to my left.
299
997853
2311
我的左手边是座死火山
16:52
To my right is sheer shale. It's coming off.
300
1000164
3828
而我右边是正在脱落陡峭的页岩层
16:55
I'm in thongs and sarongs. It was many years ago.
301
1003992
3768
我穿着人字拖和莎笼裙
而且是很多年前
而且是很多年前
16:59
And no hiking boots.
302
1007760
1625
没有登山鞋
17:01
And he's disappeared, this mad French gypsy actor,
303
1009385
3959
这个疯狂的法国吉普赛演员
17:05
off in the smoke, and I realize,
304
1013344
3304
又消失在烟雾里，我意识到
17:08
I can't go back the way that I've come. I can't.
305
1016648
3928
我不能从来时的路回去，绝对不行
17:12
So I throw away my camera. I throw away my thongs,
306
1020576
4681
所以我扔掉照相机
脱掉人字拖
脱掉人字拖
17:17
and I looked at the line straight in front of me,
307
1025257
3229
看向那条正好在我面前的路
17:20
and I got down on all fours like a cat,
308
1028486
3634
我像一只猫一样四肢着地往下爬
17:24
and I held with my knees to either side
309
1032120
3022
我用膝盖紧靠
17:27
of this line in front of me,
310
1035142
2393
这条路的两侧
17:29
for 30 yards or 30 feet, I don't know.
311
1037535
3042
爬了30码还是30英尺
记不清了
记不清了
17:32
The wind was massively blowing,
312
1040577
2713
狂风在呼啸
17:35
and the only way I could get to the other side
313
1043290
3430
而我到达另一边的唯一途径
17:38
was to look at the line straight in front of me.
314
1046720
2443
就是指望我面前这条路
17:41
I know you've all been there.
315
1049163
2003
我知道你们都经历过
17:43
I'm in the crucible right now.
316
1051166
1973
我现在就在经历严酷的考验
17:45
It's my trial by fire.
317
1053139
1864
这是烈火的试炼
17:47
It's my company's trials by fire.
318
1055003
2330
这是烈火给我的公司的试炼
17:49
We survive because our theme song is "Rise Above."
319
1057333
4257
我们成功地挺过来了
因为我们的主题曲是《超越》
因为我们的主题曲是《超越》
17:53
Boy falls from the sky, rise above.
320
1061590
3141
蜘蛛侠男从天空而降，然后又直冲云霄
17:56
It's right there in the palm of both of our hands,
321
1064731
2414
恰好都在我们的掌控之中
17:59
of all of my company's hands.
322
1067145
1627
我们公司手中拥有许多优越资源
18:00
I have beautiful collaborators, and we as creators
323
1068772
3568
我有出色的合作伙伴
我们作为创作者
我们作为创作者
18:04
only get there all together.
324
1072340
2011
必须通力合作才能成功
18:06
I know you understand that.
325
1074351
2189
我知道你们理解
18:08
And you just stay going forward,
326
1076540
2425
而且你只要保持前进
18:10
and then you see this extraordinary thing
327
1078965
2641
你就能发现奇迹
18:13
in front of your eyes.
328
1081606
1546
将出现在你眼前
18:15
Thank you.
329
1083152
1300
谢谢
18:16
(Applause)
330
1084452
5447
（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Julie Taymor - Director, designerJulie Taymor is a film, theater and opera director. She is known for lavish movies such as Frida and for her hit Broadway musicals, The Lion King and Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark.
Why you should listen
Working in musicals, Shakespeare, film and opera, Julie Taymor is a wildly imaginative and provocative director and designer. She is well known for having translated the film The Lion King to Broadway, a still-running show for which she also designed costumes, masks and puppets -- and won two Tony Awards. (She was the first woman to win a Tony for directing a musical.) She has received multiple awards for her work, and given both MacArthur and Guggenheim fellowships.
In 2005, she worked on a lavish production of Mozart's opera, The Magic Flute, and in 2006 she co-wrote a version of the story of Beowulf, Grendel. Meanwhile, she has developed a fascinating career in the movies. She directed Across the Universe, a romp through the music of the Beatles, Titus, a 1999 adaptation of Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus, and the glorious Frida, the 2002 film about Frida Kahlo for which she received an Oscar nomination. More recently, and most dramatically, Taymor collaborated with musicians from U2 on a Broadway stage version of Marvel Studios' Spider-Man.
Julie Taymor | Speaker | TED.com