TED2011
Julie Taymor: Spider-Man, The Lion King and life on the creative edge
茱莉泰茉: 蜘蛛人、獅子王與在危險邊緣上的創作生涯
Filmed:
Readability: 3.2
1,034,077 views
透過『揮灑烈愛』、『暴風雨』、『獅子王』等經典片段，導演茱莉泰茉描述自己所熱愛的劇場跟電影人生。
剛執導完百老匯的蜘蛛人音樂劇，泰茉坦率地和大家分享創作過程的緊張，以及她是如何努力一邊抓住故事精髓，一邊創作出獨一無二的影像成品。
Julie Taymor - Director, designer
Julie Taymor is a film, theater and opera director. She is known for lavish movies such as Frida and for her hit Broadway musicals, The Lion King and Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark. Full bio
Julie Taymor is a film, theater and opera director. She is known for lavish movies such as Frida and for her hit Broadway musicals, The Lion King and Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
(Music)
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(音樂)
00:19
["Oedipus Rex"]
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[伊底帕斯王(Oedipus Rex)]
00:27
["The Lion King"]
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[獅子王(The Lion King)]
00:34
["Titus"]
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[聖詩復仇 (Titus)]
00:49
["Frida"]
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[揮灑烈愛(Frida)]
01:05
["The Magic Flute"]
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[魔笛 (The Magic Flute)]
01:12
["Across The Universe"]
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[愛是唯一(Across The Universe)]
01:27
(Applause)
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(鼓掌聲)
01:32
Julie Taymor: Thank you. Thank you very much.
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謝謝大家 謝謝
01:34
That's a few samples of the theater, opera
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這些是我過去二十年來製作的
01:37
and films that I have done over the last 20 years.
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一些戲劇、歌劇和電影的片段
01:40
But what I'd like to begin with right now
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不過在一開始
01:42
is to take you back to a moment
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我想要帶大家回到
01:44
that I went through in Indonesia,
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我在印尼所經歷到的
01:46
which is a seminal moment in my life
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一個對我來說非常重要的時刻
01:49
and, like all myths,
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就和所有的神話故事一樣
01:51
these stories need to be retold
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故事需要被不斷傳講
01:53
and told, lest we forget them.
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不停重複
才不會被忘記
才不會被忘記
01:55
And when I'm in the turbulent times, as we know,
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當我處於混亂的時刻
01:58
that I am right now, through the crucible
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其實我現在就是
02:01
and the fire of transformation,
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正在上刀山、下油鍋
02:03
which is what all of you do, actually.
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事實上在座的各位想必也有經歷過
02:06
Anybody who creates knows there's that point where
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只要創作過的人大概都明白
02:09
it hasn't quite become the phoenix or the burnt char.
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創作的過程會到一個點
一個卡在中間，還未成為浴火鳳凰的時刻
一個卡在中間，還未成為浴火鳳凰的時刻
02:14
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
02:16
And I am right there on the edge,
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而我就是到了那個臨界點上
02:19
which I'll tell you about, another story.
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這又會和我想講的另一個故事有關
02:21
I want to go back to Indonesia
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我想再回到剛剛講到的印尼
02:22
where I was about 21, 22 years, a long time ago,
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當時我大概21、22歲左右
是很久以前的事了
是很久以前的事了
02:26
on a fellowship.
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我是拿了獎學金去做研究的
02:27
And I found myself, after two years there
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到了那裡兩年表演和學習
02:30
and performing and learning, on the island of Bali,
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一天，我到了峇里島
02:33
on the edge of a crater, Gunung Batur.
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在巴杜爾 (Gunung Batur) 火山口附近
02:37
And I was in a village where there was
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那裡是個小村莊
02:40
an initiation ceremony for the young men,
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正在舉辦年輕男子的成年禮
02:43
a rite of passage.
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正在舉辦年輕男子的成年禮
02:45
Little did I know that it was mine as well.
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我當時不曉得那其實也會是我的成年禮
02:47
And as I sat in this temple square
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當我坐在寺廟廣場前
02:50
under this gigantic beringin banyan tree,
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一棵大榕樹下
02:53
in the dark, there was no electricity, just the full moon,
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四周一片漆黑，沒有電燈
只有天上的一輪明月
只有天上的一輪明月
02:58
down in this empty square,
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就在廣場的附近
03:00
and I heard the most beautiful sounds,
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我聽見了世界上最美妙的聲音
03:02
like a Charles Ives concert
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就好像查理斯艾維斯的音樂會
03:04
as I listened to the gamelan music
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聽著甘美朗所彈奏出來的音樂
(印尼一種竹製樂器)
(印尼一種竹製樂器)
03:06
from all the different villagers that came
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是由好幾位參與慶典的村民
03:08
for this once-every-five-years ceremony.
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為了這場五年一次的慶典而演奏
03:11
And I thought I was alone in the dark under this tree.
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我以為只有我一個人
夜裡坐在這樹下
夜裡坐在這樹下
03:15
And all of a sudden, out of the dark,
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突然，一片漆黑中
03:17
from the other end of the square,
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從廣場的另外一頭
03:19
I saw the glint of mirrors lit by the moon.
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在月光些微光芒的照射下
03:23
And these 20 old men who I'd seen before
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我看到之前見過的約二十位老人
03:27
all of a sudden stood up in these full warrior costumes
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突然間全站了起來
並且都穿著全套的戰服
並且都穿著全套的戰服
03:32
with the headdress and the spears,
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頭飾、長矛一應俱全
03:35
and no one was in the square, and I was hidden in the shadows.
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廣場上空無一人
我剛好藏在陰影處
我剛好藏在陰影處
03:39
No one was there, and they came out,
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就在無人之際
他們站了出來
他們站了出來
03:41
and they did this incredible dance.
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並跳了一段非常棒的舞蹈
03:45
"Huhuhuhuhuhuhuhahahahaha."
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"呼呼呼呼哇哈哈哈哈"
03:49
And they moved their bodies and they came forward,
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他們舞動著身體
並且漸漸走到前端
並且漸漸走到前端
03:52
and the lights bounced off these costumes.
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光不斷地反射他們衣服上的亮片
03:55
And I've been in theater since I was 11 years old,
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我從十一歲起就在戲院裡頭打滾
03:58
and performing, creating, and I went,
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也一直都在表演跟創作
04:01
"Who are they performing for
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我不禁想：他們是在表演給誰看
04:03
with these elaborate costumes,
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居然穿著這麼精緻的戲服
04:06
these extraordinary headdresses?"
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還帶這麼特別的頭飾？
04:08
And I realized that they were performing for God,
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後來我發現他們是在表演給神看的
04:13
whatever that means.
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無論那什麼意思
04:15
But somehow, it didn't matter about the publicity.
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總之不是在做宣傳
04:19
There was no money involved.
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也沒有票房的問題
04:21
It wasn't going to be written down. It was no news.
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不需要留下記錄
更沒有要做報導
更沒有要做報導
04:24
And there were these incredible artists
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而每位表演者都是頂尖的藝術家
04:26
that felt for me like an eternity as they performed.
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當他們在表演的時候
我真的有種永恆的感覺
我真的有種永恆的感覺
04:30
The next moment,
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但下一刻
04:32
as soon as they finished and disappeared into the shadows,
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他們一跳完
就馬上消失在陰影中
就馬上消失在陰影中
04:36
a young man with a propane lantern came on,
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一名年輕人拿著瓦斯燈走了出來
04:39
hung it up on a tree, set up a curtain.
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把它掛在一棵樹上後
又架了一個簾子
又架了一個簾子
04:41
The village square was filled with hundreds of people.
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廣場上擠滿了幾百人
04:44
And they put on an opera all night long.
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這些人演了一整晚的戲
04:47
Human beings needed the light.
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凡是人都需要有光
04:49
They needed the light to see.
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因為要有光才看得見東西
04:52
So what I gained and gathered from this incredible,
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所以當我還是個年輕的藝術家時
04:55
seminal moment in my life as a young artist
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就從這個既特別
又具有啓發性的時刻學到
又具有啓發性的時刻學到
04:58
was that you must be true
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我們必須堅持並且忠於
自己做為一個藝術家所相信的
自己做為一個藝術家所相信的
05:01
to what you believe as an artist all the way through,
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我們必須堅持並且忠於
自己做為一個藝術家所相信的
自己做為一個藝術家所相信的
05:05
but you also have to be aware
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但我們同時也必須意識到
05:09
that the audience is out there in our lives at this time,
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同一個時刻
觀眾就在台下觀看著
觀眾就在台下觀看著
05:12
and they also need the light.
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而他們需要那道光
05:14
And it's this incredible balance
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我們在追求的
05:16
that I think that we walk
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就是這樣一個微妙的平衡點
05:18
when we are creating something that is breaking ground,
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當我們想要做一個突破性的創舉
05:21
that's trying to do something you've never seen before,
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或是做出沒有人曾經做過的嘗試
05:24
that imaginary world
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那個未知的世界
05:25
where you actually don't know where you're going to end up,
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你也自己也不知道結果會如何的世界
05:29
that's the fine line on the edge of a crater
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就是我這輩子
05:32
that I have walked my whole life.
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一直在走的火山口
05:34
What I would like to do now is to tell you
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接著我想跟大家談談
05:37
a little bit
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我的創作過程
05:39
about how I work. Let's take "The Lion King."
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就拿「獅子王」來說吧
05:41
You saw many examples of my work up there,
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大家剛剛看到許多我的作品
05:44
but it's one that people know.
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不過「獅子王」是大家都熟知的
05:46
I start with the notion of the ideograph.
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這部片的創作是從表意的概念出發的
05:48
An ideograph is like a brush painting, a Japanese brush painting.
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表意有點像日本水墨畫
05:52
Three strokes, you get the whole bamboo forest.
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畫上三筆
你就知道是代表的是整片的竹林
你就知道是代表的是整片的竹林
05:55
I go to the concept of "The Lion King"
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我先是有了「獅子王」這個概念
05:58
and I say, "What is the essence of it?
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接著問自己：這部片的本質是什麼？
06:00
What is the abstraction?
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精華又在哪裡？
06:01
If I were to reduce this entire story
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如果我要把整個故事
06:05
into one image, what would it be?"
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縮減到只有一個畫面
那會是什麼畫面呢？
那會是什麼畫面呢？
06:07
The circle. The circle. It's so obvious.
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循環，是一個循環
太清楚了
太清楚了
06:10
The circle of life. The circle of Mufasa's mask.
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一個生命的循環
木法沙 (Mufasa) 面具的傳承
木法沙 (Mufasa) 面具的傳承
06:14
The circle that, when we come to Act II and there's a drought,
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在第二幕的時候有場乾旱的景
06:19
how do you express drought?
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應該怎麼表現出乾旱呢？
06:20
It's a circle of silk on the floor
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一開始用絲巾圍了一圈在地上
06:24
that disappears into the hole in the stage floor.
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然後讓絲巾消失在舞台上的一個洞裡
06:28
The circle of life comes in the wheels
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生命的循環則是透過轉輪上
06:30
of the gazelles that leap.
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一群群跳躍的羚羊來表現
06:33
And you see the mechanics.
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這些技術性的部分是觀眾都看得到的
06:34
And being a theater person, what I know and love about the theater
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身為一個劇場人
我深知且熱愛戲劇的地方就是
我深知且熱愛戲劇的地方就是
06:38
is that when the audience comes in
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當觀眾進到劇院裡
06:40
and they suspend their disbelief,
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他們就會放下許多成見或質疑
06:41
when you see men walking or women walking
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當看見一群在走動的男女
06:44
with a platter of grass on their heads,
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每個人頭上都戴著一圈草
06:46
you know it's the savanna.
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你立刻就會知道那代表著草原
06:48
You don't question that.
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不會有人質疑這點
06:49
I love the apparent truth of theater.
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我就是喜歡劇場裡頭
這種不需要多做解釋的真理
這種不需要多做解釋的真理
06:52
I love that people are willing to fill in the blanks.
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我喜歡那些自己填空的觀眾
06:55
The audience is willing to say,
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他們會願意這麼說
06:57
"Oh, I know that's not a real sun.
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「喔，我知道那不是真的太陽啊」
07:00
You took pieces of sticks.
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你就是拿幾根木棍
07:03
You added silk to the bottom.
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在底部加上絲巾
07:05
You suspended these pieces. You let it fall flat on the floor.
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然後把棍子掛起來
讓絲巾垂到地上
讓絲巾垂到地上
07:08
And as it rises with the strings, I see that it's a sun.
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當隨著鋼絲把棍子吊起來時
我就知道那是太陽
我就知道那是太陽
07:13
But the beauty of it is that it's just silk and sticks.
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但這美妙之處在於
其實不過就是絲巾跟棍子罷了
其實不過就是絲巾跟棍子罷了
07:17
And in a way, that is what makes it spiritual.
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但這也就是為什麼劇場如此靈性
07:22
That's what moves you.
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而且具感染力
07:23
It's not the actual literal sunrise that's coming.
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觀眾雖然不是真正看到太陽升起
07:27
It's the art of it.
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但那意境確實傳達出來了
07:29
So in the theater, as much as the story is critical
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所以在劇院裡頭
故事本身固然重要
故事本身固然重要
07:34
and the book and the language,
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包括整個劇本或是所用的文字
07:36
the telling of the story, how it's told,
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但是如何去說一個故事
07:41
the mechanics, the methods that you use,
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所用的佈景技巧或表現手法
07:44
is equal to the story itself.
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和故事本身是一樣重要的
07:47
And I'm one who loves high tech and low tech.
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我本身喜歡用高科技
也喜歡用很基礎的技術
也喜歡用很基礎的技術
07:50
So I could go from --
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所以我可以從 --
07:52
For instance, I'll show you some "Spider-Man" later,
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比方說 我等下會給大家看
「蜘蛛人」的一些片段
「蜘蛛人」的一些片段
07:54
these incredible machines that move people along.
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這些讓人飛來飛去的機器
真的很不可思議
真的很不可思議
07:57
But the fact is, without the dancer
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但事實上，如果沒有舞者
08:00
who knows how to use his body and swing on those wires,
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誰會知道該如何
運用身體在鋼絲間擺盪？
運用身體在鋼絲間擺盪？
08:02
it's nothing.
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沒了舞者
這些就做不出來了
這些就做不出來了
08:04
So now I'm going to show you
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所以我現在要播放
08:07
some clips from the other big project of my life this year,
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我今年做的一些大案子的片段
08:11
"The Tempest."
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[暴風雨 (The Tempest)]
08:12
It's a movie. I did "The Tempest" on a stage three times
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這部是電影
我曾經三度把它做成舞台劇
我曾經三度把它做成舞台劇
08:17
in the theater since 1984, '86,
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從1984、1986年起
就有在劇場裡演出
就有在劇場裡演出
08:20
and I love the play.
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我很愛這齣戲
08:22
I did it always with a male Prospero.
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我過去都是用男性演員
來演出Prospero這個角色
來演出Prospero這個角色
08:25
And all of a sudden, I thought,
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但我某天突然想
08:26
"Well, who am I gonna get to play Prospero?
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「該找誰來演 Prospero 好呢？」
08:28
Why not Helen Mirren? She's a great actor. Why not?"
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「不如找海倫米蘭好了，她是個優秀的演員！
就這麼辦吧」
就這麼辦吧」
08:32
And this material really did work for a woman equally as well.
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且這個素材確實也十分適合女性發揮
08:35
So now, let's take a look at some of the images
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現在就讓我們來看看
08:38
from "The Tempest."
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[暴風雨(The Tempest)]
的一些場景吧
的一些場景吧
08:40
(Music)
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(音樂)
08:57
(Video) Prospera: Hast thou, spirit, performed to the point the tempest that I bade thee?
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Prospera：精靈，你有沒有按照我的命令
去執行那場暴風雨？
去執行那場暴風雨？
09:00
Ariel: I boarded the king's ship. In every cabin, I flamed amazement.
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Ariel：我登上了國王的船，也到每個船艙裡
放了火，使人恐懼
放了火，使人恐懼
09:09
Prospera: At first sight, they have changed eyes.
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Prospera：才第一次見面
他們就已經在眉目傳情了
他們就已經在眉目傳情了
09:12
Miranda: Do you love me?
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Miranda：你愛我嗎？
09:13
Ferdinand: Beyond all limit.
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Ferdinand：勝於一切
09:15
HM: They are both in either's powers.
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旁白：他們已經深陷情網中了
09:17
Trinculo: Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows.
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Trinculo：患難使人從陌生到熟稔
09:22
(Music)
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(音樂)
09:26
Looking for business, governor?
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您在找什麼嗎，大人？
09:29
Caliban: Hast thou not dropped from heaven?
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Caliban：您不是從天上掉下來的嗎？
09:31
Stephano: Out of the moon, I do assure thee.
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Stephano：我確實是從月亮上下來的
09:34
Prospera: Caliban!
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Prospera：Caliban!
09:36
Caliban: This island is mine.
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Caliban：這座島是我的
09:38
Prospera: For this, be sure, tonight thou shalt have cramps.
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Prospera：記住吧，為著你的出言不遜
今晚要叫你痛苦
今晚要叫你痛苦
09:41
Antonio: Here lies your brother no better than the earth he lies upon.
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Antonio：你哥哥躺著，如同他身下的泥土
09:45
Sebastian: Draw thy sword.
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Sebastian：舉起你的劍吧
09:47
And I, the king, shall love thee.
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孤王我必會十分眷顧你
09:50
Prospera: I will plague them all, even to roaring.
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Prospera：我要狠狠地懲治他們
直至他們哀嚎出聲
直至他們哀嚎出聲
09:58
Ariel: I have made you mad.
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Ariel：你們已經發狂了
10:08
Prospera: We are such stuff as dreams are made on.
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Prospera：我們的人生也不過是一場夢
10:11
and our little life is rounded with a sleep.
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而且這短暫的一生，前後都在酣睡
10:16
(Music)
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(音樂)
10:21
JT: Okay.
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大概是這樣
10:24
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
10:28
So I went from theater, doing "The Tempest"
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所以我從好多年前，在劇院裡頭
10:30
on the stage in a very low-budget production
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用很低的成本，製作『暴風雨』這部劇
10:33
many years ago,
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一路到了現在
10:34
and I love the play, and I also think
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我很愛這部戲，而且我覺得
10:37
it's Shakespeare's last play,
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這是莎翁筆下最後的一部劇
10:39
and it really lends itself, as you can see, to cinema.
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再加上如同大家剛所看到的
它很適合在大螢幕上播出
它很適合在大螢幕上播出
10:42
But I'm just going to give you a little example about
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但我只是想跟大家分享
10:45
how one stages it in theater
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如何在劇場裡做一部劇
10:47
and then how one takes that same idea or story
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又該如何把同樣的一個想法
或我們說同一個故事
或我們說同一個故事
10:51
and moves it into cinema.
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搬上大螢幕
10:54
The ideograph that I talked to you about before,
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還記得我們先前提過的表意手法嗎
10:57
what is it for "The Tempest"?
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如果運用在『暴風雨』上
該用什麼來表現呢？
該用什麼來表現呢？
10:59
What, if I were to boil it down,
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如果要去蕪存菁
11:02
would be the one image that I could
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哪個畫面會是最有代表性的？
11:04
hang my hat on for this?
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哪個畫面會是最有代表性的？
11:06
And it was the sand castle,
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我想到的是那座沙堡
11:09
the idea of nurture versus nature,
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我們所建構的文明
11:12
that we build these civilizations --
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究竟是後天還是先天的？
11:14
she speaks about it at the end, Helen Mirren's Prospera --
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這也就是海倫米蘭所飾演
Prospera在片尾所說的
Prospera在片尾所說的
11:17
we build them, but under nature, under the grand tempest,
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我們努力讓自己成為文明人
但實際上，在大歷練下
但實際上，在大歷練下
11:23
these cloud-capped towers, these gorgeous palaces will fade
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那些被雲所覆蓋的高塔
或華美的皇宮都將逝去
或華美的皇宮都將逝去
11:28
and there will -- leave not a rack behind.
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而且是消失地無影無蹤
11:32
So in the theater, I started the play,
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所以在劇場裡演出時的開場
11:35
it was a black sand rake, white cyc,
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是一個黑色的沙耙配上全白的佈景
11:38
and there was a little girl, Miranda, on the horizon,
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然後有個小女孩 Miranda 在當中
11:41
building a drip castle, a sand castle.
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用沙在蓋著城堡
11:44
And as she was there on the edge of that stage,
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當她在舞台邊上蓋著蓋著時
11:47
two stagehands all in black
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有兩個全身穿黑衣服的舞台工作人員
11:51
with watering cans ran along the top
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手裡拿著澆水器
11:55
and started to pour water on the sand castle,
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開始在沙堡上頭澆水
12:00
and the sand castle started to drip and sink,
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於是沙堡開始倒塌
12:02
but before it did,
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但在倒下來之前
12:04
the audience saw the black-clad stagehands.
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觀眾都有看到那兩位
穿黑衣服的工作人員
穿黑衣服的工作人員
12:08
The medium was apparent. It was banal. We saw it.
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這個手法太明顯了
甚至可以說太直白
甚至可以說太直白
12:13
But as they started to pour the water,
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但當他們開始倒水的時候
12:16
the light changed from showing you the black-clad stagehands
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光就從這兩個黑衣人挪開
12:19
to focusing, this rough magic that we do in theater,
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並用在劇院裡我們常用的那招
12:23
it focused right on the water itself.
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把光改打在水面上
12:26
And all of a sudden, the audience's perspective changes.
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觀眾的想法也就瞬間跟著改變了
12:30
It becomes something magically large.
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關注的是整個畫面
12:34
It becomes the rainstorm.
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是專注在暴風雨上
12:37
The masked actors, the puppeteers, they disappear,
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隨著帶著面具或操縱木偶的演員下台
12:40
and the audience makes that leap into this world,
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觀眾們就這樣進到
12:43
into this imaginary world of "The Tempest" actually happening.
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台上『暴風雨』的想像世界裡
12:48
Now the difference
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不過當我把這部戲
12:49
when I went and did it in the cinema,
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搬到電影院裡時
12:52
I started the actual movie
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電影的開場方式就不一樣了
12:54
with a close-up of a sand castle, a black sand castle,
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一開始鏡頭是特寫在沙堡上
一個黑色的沙堡
一個黑色的沙堡
12:59
and what cinema can do is,
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電影的好處就是
13:01
by using camera, perspective,
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可以運用鏡頭的遠近
13:05
and also long shots and close-ups,
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來製造不同的角度
13:08
it started on a close-up of the sand castle,
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我是用特寫沙堡的鏡頭開場的
13:10
and as it pulled away,
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然後當鏡頭漸漸拉遠的時候
13:12
you saw that it was a miniature sitting in the palm
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觀眾就會看到其實它是
13:15
of the girl's hands.
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放在一個小女孩手上的迷你沙堡
13:17
And so I could play with the medium,
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所以我可以大玩不同的呈現方式
13:18
and why I move from one medium to another
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而我選擇用各種不同的呈現方式
13:21
is to be able to do this.
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就是為了可以做到這個
13:23
Now I'm going to take you to "Spider-Man."
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接下來我要讓大家看的是『蜘蛛人』
13:25
(Music)
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(音樂)
13:56
(Video) Peter Parker: ♪ Standing on the precipice,
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Peter Parker: 站在這個高樓的邊緣
13:59
I can soar away from this. ♪
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我可以一躍而下
14:04
JT: We're trying to do everything in live theater
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我們在劇院裡頭就是盡可能地
14:06
that you can't do in two dimensions
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嘗試任何在一般2D電視
14:08
in film and television.
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或電影螢幕上所無法表現的東西
14:10
PP: ♪ Rise above yourself and take control. ♪
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Peter Parker：超越自我並掌管一切吧
14:14
George Tsypin: We're looking at New York from a Spider-Man point of view.
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George Tsypin：我們是在從蜘蛛人的角度在看紐約
14:18
Spider Man is not bound by gravity.
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蜘蛛人不受地心引力限制
14:20
Manhattan in the show is not bound by gravity either.
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這部戲裡的曼哈頓也不受地心引力的限制
14:23
PP: ♪ Be yourself and rise above it all. ♪
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Peter Parker：做你自己並不要受任何影響
14:27
Ensemble: ♪ Sock! Pow! ♪
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合唱：猛烈一擊！啪！
14:31
♪ Slam! Scratch! ♪
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砰！劃破了！
14:34
Danny Ezralow: I don't want you to even think there's a choreographer.
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Danny Ezalow：我不希望大家覺得有人在編舞
14:36
It's real, what's happening.
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這裡發生的一切都是真的
14:37
I prefer you to see people moving,
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我倒希望你看到人在移動
14:40
and you're going, "Whoa, what was that?"
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然後你說："哇，這是什麼？"
14:42
(Music)
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(音樂)
14:55
JT: If I give enough movement in the sculpture,
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如果我給那些雕像再多一點的動作
14:57
and the actor moves their head, you feel like it's alive.
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要演員去移動他們的頭
你會覺得是真人
你會覺得是真人
15:00
It's really comic book live. It's a comic book coming alive.
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真的是把漫畫活生生地搬上台
15:03
(Music)
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(音樂)
15:10
Bono: They're mythologies.
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Bono：這簡直是神話故事
15:11
They're modern myths, these comic book heroes.
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這些漫畫主角
確實是現代版的神話故事
確實是現代版的神話故事
15:15
PP: ♪ They believe. ♪
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Peter Parker：他們都相信
15:21
(Screams)
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(尖叫聲)
15:25
(Music)
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(音樂)
15:42
(Applause)
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(鼓掌聲)
15:45
JT: Ohhhh. What was that?
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哇，那是什麼啊？
15:49
Circus, rock 'n' roll, drama.
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既像馬戲團，又有搖滾樂跟戲劇成分
15:51
What the hell are we doing up there on that stage?
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我們在那個舞台上究竟在搞什麼？
15:54
Well, one last story, very quickly.
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很快地，跟大家分享最後一個故事
15:57
After I was in that village, I crossed the lake,
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去完那個小村莊之後
我去了一個湖的對岸
我去了一個湖的對岸
16:00
and I saw that the volcano was erupting
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看到另外一頭
16:03
on the other side, Gunung Batur,
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巴杜爾火山噴發
16:05
and there was a dead volcano next to the live volcano.
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而在那個活火山的旁邊，有個死火山
16:08
I didn't think I'd be swallowed by the volcano,
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我當時沒想過自己可能會被火山給吞滅
16:10
and I am here.
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雖然確實沒有
因為我還站在這
因為我還站在這
16:11
But it's very easy to climb up, is it not?
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但是要爬上去還滿容易的嘛，不是嗎？
16:15
You hold on to the roots,
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你就抓著那些樹的樹根
16:17
you put your foot in the little rocks
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然後把腳踩在小石塊上
16:20
and climb up there, and you get to the top,
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不一會就爬到頂部了
16:23
and I was with a good friend who was an actor,
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我當時跟一個做演員的朋友一塊爬上去的
16:25
and we said, "Let's go up there.
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我們就說：一起爬上去吧
16:27
Let's see if we can come close to the edge
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看看我們能不能爬到那座活火山口去
16:29
of that live volcano."
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看看我們能不能爬到那座活火山口去
16:31
And we climbed up and we got to the very top,
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我們就爬了也真的到最頂部了
16:34
and we're on the edge, on this precipice,
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我們就站在那個火山口
那個危險的邊緣
那個危險的邊緣
16:36
Roland disappears into the sulfur smoke
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硫磺的煙把Roland都給遮住了
16:39
at the volcano at the other end,
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他在火山口的另一邊
16:41
and I'm up there alone
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就只剩下我自己在那裡
16:43
on this incredible precipice.
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在這個難以形容的危險邊緣
16:45
Did you hear the lyrics?
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你剛有聽見那段歌詞嗎
16:47
I'm on the precipice looking down
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我站在這個邊緣往下看
16:49
into a dead volcano to my left.
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看到在我左手邊是一個死火山
16:52
To my right is sheer shale. It's coming off.
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右手邊則是陡峭的頁岩壁
而且還在一塊塊地崩落
而且還在一塊塊地崩落
16:55
I'm in thongs and sarongs. It was many years ago.
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我穿著拖鞋跟沙龍
那是很多年前了
那是很多年前了
16:59
And no hiking boots.
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還不是登山鞋喔！
17:01
And he's disappeared, this mad French gypsy actor,
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然後他突然間不見了
我那個瘋瘋癲癲的法國吉普賽演員朋友
我那個瘋瘋癲癲的法國吉普賽演員朋友
17:05
off in the smoke, and I realize,
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就這麼消失在煙霧裡
然後我意識到
然後我意識到
17:08
I can't go back the way that I've come. I can't.
305
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我沒辦法從我剛來的路回去
真的沒辦法
真的沒辦法
17:12
So I throw away my camera. I throw away my thongs,
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所以我把相機給丟了
把腳上的拖鞋也踢掉
把腳上的拖鞋也踢掉
17:17
and I looked at the line straight in front of me,
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然後我看著我面前那條必須跨過去的路
17:20
and I got down on all fours like a cat,
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我像隻貓一樣四隻腳著地趴在地上
17:24
and I held with my knees to either side
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試著把膝蓋跨過去
17:27
of this line in front of me,
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比比看有多寬
17:29
for 30 yards or 30 feet, I don't know.
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大概有三十碼或三十呎吧
我也不太清楚
我也不太清楚
17:32
The wind was massively blowing,
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風颳得很大
17:35
and the only way I could get to the other side
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那是我唯一可以去到另外一邊的路
17:38
was to look at the line straight in front of me.
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就是在我面前這條必須跨過去的線
17:41
I know you've all been there.
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2003
我知道你們大概都有過類似經驗
17:43
I'm in the crucible right now.
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1973
就是這樣一個嚴酷的考驗
17:45
It's my trial by fire.
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1864
那是我的過火試煉
17:47
It's my company's trials by fire.
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也是我公司的試煉
17:49
We survive because our theme song is "Rise Above."
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我們成功地跨過去了
因為主題曲就叫做"超越"
因為主題曲就叫做"超越"
17:53
Boy falls from the sky, rise above.
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男孩從天掉落 但跨越一切
17:56
It's right there in the palm of both of our hands,
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機會就在我們的雙手中
17:59
of all of my company's hands.
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也在我公司所有人的手中
18:00
I have beautiful collaborators, and we as creators
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我有很棒的工作團隊
而身為創意工作者的我們
而身為創意工作者的我們
18:04
only get there all together.
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2011
唯有一起跨越才行
18:06
I know you understand that.
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我知道你們了解我在說的是什麼
18:08
And you just stay going forward,
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繼續向前走就對了
18:10
and then you see this extraordinary thing
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一旦跨越了
18:13
in front of your eyes.
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眼前的美景就能盡收眼底
18:15
Thank you.
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謝謝大家
18:16
(Applause)
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(鼓掌聲)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Julie Taymor - Director, designerJulie Taymor is a film, theater and opera director. She is known for lavish movies such as Frida and for her hit Broadway musicals, The Lion King and Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark.
Why you should listen
Working in musicals, Shakespeare, film and opera, Julie Taymor is a wildly imaginative and provocative director and designer. She is well known for having translated the film The Lion King to Broadway, a still-running show for which she also designed costumes, masks and puppets -- and won two Tony Awards. (She was the first woman to win a Tony for directing a musical.) She has received multiple awards for her work, and given both MacArthur and Guggenheim fellowships.
In 2005, she worked on a lavish production of Mozart's opera, The Magic Flute, and in 2006 she co-wrote a version of the story of Beowulf, Grendel. Meanwhile, she has developed a fascinating career in the movies. She directed Across the Universe, a romp through the music of the Beatles, Titus, a 1999 adaptation of Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus, and the glorious Frida, the 2002 film about Frida Kahlo for which she received an Oscar nomination. More recently, and most dramatically, Taymor collaborated with musicians from U2 on a Broadway stage version of Marvel Studios' Spider-Man.
Julie Taymor | Speaker | TED.com