TEDxMileHigh
Christian Picciolini: My descent into America's neo-Nazi movement -- and how I got out
Christian Picciolini: Môj zostup do amerického neonacistického hnutia -- a ako som sa z neho dostal
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Christian Picciolini sa ako naivný 14 ročný tínedžer stal vyznávačom nadvlády bielej rasy a čoskoro lídrom prvého neonacistického gangu skinheadov v Spojených štátoch. Ako bol radikalizovaný a ako sa napokon dostal z hnutia? V tomto odvážnom prejave sa Picciolini delí o prekvapivé a kontra-intuitívne riešenie nenávisti vo všetkých jej podobách.
Christian Picciolini - Counter-extremism specialist
Christian Picciolini is dedicated to helping others counter racism and extremism. Full bio
Christian Picciolini is dedicated to helping others counter racism and extremism. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
My journey away from violent extremism
began 22 years ago,
began 22 years ago,
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Moja cesta od násilného extrémizmu
sa začala pred 22 rokmi,
sa začala pred 22 rokmi,
00:18
when I denounced racism
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keď som zavrhol rasizmus
00:20
and left the American white
supremacist skinhead movement
supremacist skinhead movement
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a opustil som americké hnutie
skinheadov za bielu nadvládu,
skinheadov za bielu nadvládu,
00:22
that I had helped build.
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ktoré som pomohol postaviť.
00:24
(Cheers and applause)
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(povzbudenie a potlesk)
00:30
I was just 22 years old at the time,
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V tom čase som mal 22 rokov,
00:33
but I had already spent eight years,
from the time I was 14 years old,
from the time I was 14 years old,
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ale už som mal za sebou osem rokov,
odkedy som mal štrnásť rokov,
odkedy som mal štrnásť rokov,
00:37
as one of the earliest
and youngest members
and youngest members
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ako jeden z najskorších
a najmladších členov
a najmladších členov
00:39
and an eventual leader within
America's most violent hate movement.
America's most violent hate movement.
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a eventuálne ako líder najnásilnejšieho
amerického nenávistného hnutia.
amerického nenávistného hnutia.
00:44
But I wasn't born into hate;
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Ale nenarodil som sa do nenávisti;
00:47
in fact, it was quite the opposite.
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v skutočnosti celkom naopak.
00:52
I had a relatively normal childhood.
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Mal som relatívne normálne detstvo.
00:55
My parents are Italian immigrants
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Moji rodičia sú talianski imigranti,
00:57
who came to the United States
in the mid-1960s
in the mid-1960s
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ktorí prišli do Spojených štátov
uprostred 60. rokov
uprostred 60. rokov
01:00
and settled on the South Side of Chicago,
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a usadili sa na Južnej strane Chicaga,
01:03
where they eventually met,
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kde sa nakoniec zoznámili,
01:05
and opened a small beauty shop.
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a otvorili si malý salón krásy.
01:08
Right after I was born,
things got a little bit more difficult.
things got a little bit more difficult.
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Hneď ako som sa narodil,
začali byť veci trochu ťažšie.
začali byť veci trochu ťažšie.
01:11
They struggled to survive with raising
a young family and a new business,
a young family and a new business,
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Usilovali sa prežiť, zatiaľčo sa
starali o mladú rodinu a nový podnik,
starali o mladú rodinu a nový podnik,
01:16
often working seven days a week,
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často pracovali sedem dní v týždni,
01:19
14 hours a day,
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14 hodín denne,
01:21
taking on second and third jobs
just to earn a meager living.
just to earn a meager living.
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zobrali si druhú a tretiu prácu,
len aby zarobili skromné živobytie.
len aby zarobili skromné živobytie.
01:25
And quality time with my parents
was pretty nonexistent.
was pretty nonexistent.
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Kvalitný čas s mojimi rodičmi
vlastne neexistoval.
vlastne neexistoval.
01:29
Even though I knew
they loved me very much,
they loved me very much,
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Aj keď som vedel,
že ma veľmi milovali,
že ma veľmi milovali,
01:32
growing up, I felt abandoned.
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cítil som sa počas dospievania opustený.
01:35
I was lonely, and I started to withdraw,
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Bol som osamelý,
začal som sa od nich odkláňať
začal som sa od nich odkláňať
01:39
and then I started to resent my parents
and become very angry.
and become very angry.
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a potom som začal k mojim rodičom
cítiť odpor a bol som veľmi nahnevaný.
cítiť odpor a bol som veľmi nahnevaný.
01:44
And as I was growing up,
through my teenage years,
through my teenage years,
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A ako som vyrastal,
počas mojich tínedžerských rokov
počas mojich tínedžerských rokov
01:47
I started to act out to try and get
attention from my parents.
attention from my parents.
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som začal vyvádzať, aby som od rodičov
získal pozornosť.
získal pozornosť.
01:53
And one day, when I was 14,
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A jedného dňa, keď som mal 14 rokov,
01:55
I was standing in an alley,
and I was smoking a joint,
and I was smoking a joint,
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stál som v uličke a fajčil joint,
01:59
and a man who was twice my age,
with a shaved head and tall black boots,
with a shaved head and tall black boots,
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a muž, ktorý bol odo mňa dvakrát starší,
s vyholenou hlavou a s kanadami
s vyholenou hlavou a s kanadami
02:05
came up to me,
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prišiel ku mne
02:07
and he snatched the joint from my lips.
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a vychmatol mi joint z mojich pier.
02:10
Then he put his hand on my shoulder
and he looked me in the eyes,
and he looked me in the eyes,
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Potom položil ruku na moje rameno
a pozrel sa mi do očí
a pozrel sa mi do očí
02:14
and he said,
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a povedal:
02:16
"That's what the communists
and the Jews want you to do
and the Jews want you to do
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"To komunisti a Židia chcú,
aby si toto robil
aby si toto robil
02:19
to keep you docile."
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aby si ostal povoľný."
02:23
I was 14 years old,
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Mal som 14 rokov,
02:24
I'd been trading baseball cards
and watching "Happy Days" --
and watching "Happy Days" --
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vymieňal som si baseballové kartičky
a pozeral "Happy Days" -
a pozeral "Happy Days" -
02:27
I didn't really know what a Jew was.
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naozaj som nevedel, čo je to Žid.
02:29
(Laughter)
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(smiech)
02:31
It's true.
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Naozaj.
02:32
And the only communist that I knew
was the bad Russian guy
was the bad Russian guy
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A jediný komunista, ktorého som poznal,
bol zlý Rus
bol zlý Rus
02:36
in my favorite Rocky movie.
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v mojej obľúbenej časti Rockyho.
02:38
(Laughter)
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(smiech)
02:40
And since I'm here
baring my soul with you,
baring my soul with you,
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A keďže vám tu odhaľujem svoju dušu,
02:43
I can reveal that I did not even know
what the word "docile" meant.
what the word "docile" meant.
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tak vám môžem prezradiť, že som nevedel
ani, čo znamená slovo "povoľný".
ani, čo znamená slovo "povoľný".
02:47
(Laughter)
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(smiech)
02:48
Dead serious.
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Úplne vážne.
02:50
But it was as if this man in this alley
had offered me a lifeline.
had offered me a lifeline.
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Ale bolo to akoby mi ten muž v uličke
ponúkol záchranné lano.
ponúkol záchranné lano.
02:55
For 14 years, I'd felt
marginalized and bullied.
marginalized and bullied.
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14 rokov som sa cítil
marginalizovaný a šikanovaný.
marginalizovaný a šikanovaný.
03:00
I had low self-esteem.
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Mal som nízke sebavedomie.
03:02
And frankly, I didn't know
who I was, where I belonged,
who I was, where I belonged,
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A úprimne som nevedel,
kto som bol, kam som patril
kto som bol, kam som patril
03:06
or what my purpose was.
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alebo čo bolo mojím zmyslom.
03:08
I was lost.
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Bol som stratený.
03:10
And overnight, because this man
had pulled me in,
had pulled me in,
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A zo dňa na deň, pretože ma
tento muž vtiahol
tento muž vtiahol
03:14
and I had grabbed onto that lifeline
with every fiber of my being.
with every fiber of my being.
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a ja som sa chytil toho záchranného lana
každou nitkou svojho bytia.
každou nitkou svojho bytia.
03:19
I had gone from "Joanie Loves Chachi"
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Z fanúšika "Joanie Loves Chachi"
03:24
to full-blown Nazi.
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som sa stal úplným nacistom.
03:26
Overnight.
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Zo dňa na deň.
03:29
I started to listen to the rhetoric
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Začal som počúvať
ich rétoriku a veriť jej.
ich rétoriku a veriť jej.
03:32
and believe it.
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03:34
I started to watch very closely
as the leaders of this organization
as the leaders of this organization
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Začal som veľmi pozorne sledovať
ako sa lídri tejto organizácie
ako sa lídri tejto organizácie
03:38
would target vulnerable young people
who felt marginalized
who felt marginalized
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zameriavali na zraniteľných mladých ľudí,
ktorí sa cítili marginalizovaní,
ktorí sa cítili marginalizovaní,
03:44
and then draw them in
with promises of paradise
with promises of paradise
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a potom ich vtiahli prísľubmi raja,
03:48
that were broken.
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ktoré boli porušené.
03:51
And then I started to recruit myself.
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A potom som začal verbovať aj ja.
03:55
I started to do that by making
white-power music.
white-power music.
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Začal som robením white-power hudby.
A čoskoro som sa stal lídrom
tejto neslávne známej organizácie,
tejto neslávne známej organizácie,
04:00
And soon, I became the leader
of that infamous organization
of that infamous organization
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04:05
that was led by that man in that alley
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ktorú viedol ten muž v uličke,
04:08
who recruited me that day,
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ktorý ma vtedy naverboval,
04:10
who was America's first neo-Nazi skinhead
and who had radicalized me.
and who had radicalized me.
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a ktorý bol prvý neonacistický skinhead
v Amerike, a ktorý ma radikalizoval.
v Amerike, a ktorý ma radikalizoval.
04:15
For the next eight years,
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Ďalších osem rokov
04:17
I believed the lies that I had been fed.
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som veril klamstvám,
ktorými som bol kŕmený.
ktorými som bol kŕmený.
04:21
And though I saw
no evidence of it whatsoever,
no evidence of it whatsoever,
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A aj keď som o tom
nikdy nevidel žiadny dôkaz,
nikdy nevidel žiadny dôkaz,
04:24
I didn't hesitate to blame
every Jewish person in the world
every Jewish person in the world
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neváhal som viniť každého Žida na svete
04:28
for what I thought was a white,
European genocide
European genocide
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za to, o čom som si myslel, že bola
biela európska genocída
biela európska genocída
04:33
being promoted by them
through a multiculturalist agenda.
through a multiculturalist agenda.
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nimi podporovaná
cez multikulturalistickú agendu.
cez multikulturalistickú agendu.
04:38
I blamed people of color
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Vinil som ľudí inej farby pleti
04:40
for the crime and violence
and the drugs in the city,
and the drugs in the city,
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za zločiny, násilie a drogy v meste,
04:45
completely neglecting the fact
that I was committing acts of violence
that I was committing acts of violence
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úplne ignorujúc fakt, že som sám páchal
násilné činy každý deň,
násilné činy každý deň,
04:49
on a daily basis,
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04:51
and that in many cases,
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a že v mnohých prípadoch
04:53
it was white supremacists
who were funneling drugs
who were funneling drugs
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to boli bieli rasisti, kto prinášal drogy
do centier miest.
do centier miest.
04:56
into the inner cities.
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04:58
And I blamed immigrants
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A vinil som imigrantov
05:01
for taking jobs from white Americans,
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za to, že bielym Američanom brali prácu,
05:04
completely neglecting the fact that
my parents were hardworking immigrants
my parents were hardworking immigrants
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úplne ignorujúc fakt, že moji rodičia
boli ťažko pracujúci imigranti,
boli ťažko pracujúci imigranti,
05:09
who struggled to survive,
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ktorí sa usilovali prežiť
05:13
despite not getting help
from anybody else.
from anybody else.
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napriek tomu, že od nikoho iného
nedostávali pomoc.
nedostávali pomoc.
05:17
For the next eight years,
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Počas nasledujúcich ôsmich rokov
05:20
I saw friends die,
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som videl priateľov zomierať,
05:23
I saw others go to prison
and inflict untold pain
and inflict untold pain
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videl som ostatných ísť do väzenia
a spôsobovať nesmiernu bolesť
a spôsobovať nesmiernu bolesť
05:27
on countless victims
and their families' lives.
and their families' lives.
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nespočetným obetiam
a ich rodinám.
a ich rodinám.
05:31
I heard horrific stories
from young women in the movement,
from young women in the movement,
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Počul som desivé príbehy
od mladých žien v hnutí,
od mladých žien v hnutí,
05:35
who'd been brutally raped by the very men
they were conditioned to trust,
they were conditioned to trust,
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ktoré boli brutálne znásilnené tými mužmi,
ktorým boli naučené dôverovať.
ktorým boli naučené dôverovať.
05:41
and I myself committed acts
of violence against people,
of violence against people,
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A sám som páchal násilné činy na ľuďoch
05:45
solely for the color of their skin,
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len kvôli farbe ich pleti,
05:47
who they loved,
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kvôli tomu, koho milovali
05:49
or the god that they prayed to.
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alebo kvôli bohu, ku ktorému sa modlili.
05:53
I stockpiled weapons for what I thought
was an upcoming race war.
was an upcoming race war.
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Zásoboval som sa zbraňami,
lebo som očakával rasovú vojnu.
lebo som očakával rasovú vojnu.
05:57
I went to six high schools;
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Zo šiestich stredných škôl
05:59
I was kicked out of four of them,
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ma vyhodili zo štyroch,
06:00
one of them, twice.
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z jednej dvakrát.
06:03
And 25 years ago, I wrote
and performed racist music
and performed racist music
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A pred 25 rokmi som skladal
a hral rasistickú hudbu,
a hral rasistickú hudbu,
06:10
that found its way
to the internet decades later
to the internet decades later
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ktorá si po desaťročiach našla
svoju cestu na internet
svoju cestu na internet
06:12
and partially inspired
a young white nationalist
a young white nationalist
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a čiastočne inšpirovala
mladého bieleho nacionalistu,
mladého bieleho nacionalistu,
06:16
to walk into a sacred Charleston,
South Carolina, church
South Carolina, church
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ktorý vkročil do kostola v Charlestone,
v Južnej Karolíne
v Južnej Karolíne
06:20
and senselessly massacre
nine innocent people.
nine innocent people.
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a bezhlavo zmasakroval
deviatich nevinných ľudí.
deviatich nevinných ľudí.
06:28
But then my life changed.
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Ale potom sa môj život zmenil.
06:31
At 19 years old, I met a girl
who was not in the movement,
who was not in the movement,
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Keď som mal 19 rokov, stretol som dievča,
ktoré nebolo v hnutí.
ktoré nebolo v hnutí.
06:35
who didn't have a racist bone in her body,
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Nemala v sebe ani kúsok rasizmu
06:39
and I fell in love with her.
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a ja som sa do nej zamiloval.
06:42
And at 19, we got married,
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V devätnástich sme sa vzali
06:44
and we had our first son.
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a mali sme prvého syna.
06:48
And when I held my son in my arms
in the delivery room that day,
in the delivery room that day,
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A keď som v ten deň v pôrodnej sále
svojho syna držal v rukách
svojho syna držal v rukách
06:52
not only did I reconnect
with some of the innocence that I had lost
with some of the innocence that I had lost
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nielen že som znovu našiel
niečo z nevinnosti, ktorú som stratil,
niečo z nevinnosti, ktorú som stratil,
06:57
at 14 years old,
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keď som mal 14 rokov,
06:59
but it also began to challenge
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ale tiež to spochybnilo
07:01
the very important things that drew
me to the movement to begin with:
me to the movement to begin with:
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najdôležitejšie veci, ktoré ma
v prvom rade viedli k hnutiu:
v prvom rade viedli k hnutiu:
07:05
identity, community and purpose --
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identitu, komunitu a zmysel --
07:08
things that I had been
struggling with as a young boy.
struggling with as a young boy.
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veci, s ktorými som zápasil
ako mladý chlapec.
ako mladý chlapec.
07:11
And now, I struggled with the concept
of who I was again.
of who I was again.
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Tentokrát som znovu zápasil
s predstavou toho, čo som.
s predstavou toho, čo som.
07:17
Was I this neo-Nazi hatemonger,
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Bol som neonacistický šíriteľ nenávisti
07:22
or was I a caring father and husband?
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alebo starostlivý otec a manžel?
07:26
Was my community the one
that I had manufactured around me
that I had manufactured around me
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Bola mojou komunitou tá,
ktorú som si okolo seba vytvoril,
ktorú som si okolo seba vytvoril,
07:30
to boost my own ego,
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aby som si posilnil svoje ego,
07:32
because I felt self-hatred for myself
and I wanted to project it onto others,
and I wanted to project it onto others,
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pretože som voči sebe cítil nenávisť
a chcel som ju premietnuť na iných,
a chcel som ju premietnuť na iných,
07:38
or was it the one
that I had physically given life to?
that I had physically given life to?
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alebo ňou bola tá,
ktorej som fyzicky dal život?
ktorej som fyzicky dal život?
07:43
Was my purpose to scorch the earth
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Bolo mojím zmyslom spáliť zem
07:48
or was it to make it
a better place for my family?
a better place for my family?
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alebo spraviť ju lepším miestom
pre moju rodinu?
pre moju rodinu?
07:52
And suddenly, like a ton of bricks hit me,
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A zrazu ma to zasiahlo ako tona tehál.
07:57
I became very confused with
who I'd been for the last eight years.
who I'd been for the last eight years.
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Bol som zmätený z toho,
kým som posledných osem rokov bol.
kým som posledných osem rokov bol.
08:04
And if only I'd been brave enough
to walk away at that moment,
to walk away at that moment,
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A ak by som bol dosť statočný vtedy odísť,
08:07
to understand what the struggle was
that was happening inside of me,
that was happening inside of me,
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pochopiť ten boj,
ktorý sa vo mne odohrával,
ktorý sa vo mne odohrával,
08:13
then maybe tragedy
could have been averted.
could have been averted.
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tak by tragédia možno
mohla byť odvrátená.
mohla byť odvrátená.
08:17
Instead, I did compromise.
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Namiesto toho som spravil kompromis.
08:19
I took myself off the streets
for the benefit of my family,
for the benefit of my family,
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3345
Pre dobro rodiny som sa stiahol z ulice,
08:23
because I was nervous that maybe
I could go to jail or end up dead,
I could go to jail or end up dead,
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pretože som sa bál, že by som
mohol skončiť vo väzení alebo mŕtvy
mohol skončiť vo väzení alebo mŕtvy
08:27
and they would have to fend
for themselves.
for themselves.
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2093
a oni by sa o seba museli postarať sami.
08:30
So I stepped back as a leader,
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Odišiel som z pozície lídra
08:31
and instead I opened a record store
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a namiesto toho som si otvoril
obchod s hudbou,
obchod s hudbou,
08:35
that I was going to sell
white-power music in, of course,
white-power music in, of course,
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v ktorom som samozrejme
plánoval predávať white-power hudbu,
plánoval predávať white-power hudbu,
08:39
because I was importing it in from Europe.
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pretože som ju dovážal z Európy.
08:42
But I knew that if I was just
a racist store selling racist music
a racist store selling racist music
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4136
Ale vedel som, že rasistický obchod
predávajúci len rasistickú hudbu
predávajúci len rasistickú hudbu
08:46
the community would not
allow me to be there.
allow me to be there.
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by v tamojšej komunite nebol prijatý.
08:49
So I decided I was going to also
stock the shelves with other music,
stock the shelves with other music,
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Tak som sa rozhodol, že budem regále
zásobiť aj inou hudbou,
zásobiť aj inou hudbou,
08:54
like punk rock and heavy metal
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akou je punk rock, heavy metal a hip-hop.
08:56
and hip-hop.
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1247
08:58
And while the white-power music
that I was selling
that I was selling
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2531
A kým white-power hudba,
ktorú som predával,
ktorú som predával,
09:01
was 75 percent of my gross revenue,
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tvorila 75 % môjho hrubého príjmu,
09:03
because people were driving in
from all over the country to buy it
from all over the country to buy it
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pretože ľudia z celej krajiny cestovali,
aby si ju kúpili
aby si ju kúpili
09:07
from the only store that was selling it,
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v jedinom obchode, ktorý ju predával,
09:10
I also had customers come in
to buy the other music.
to buy the other music.
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mal som aj zákazníkov, ktorí si prišli
kúpiť aj tú inú hudbu.
kúpiť aj tú inú hudbu.
09:15
And eventually, they started
to talk to me.
to talk to me.
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A nakoniec sa mi začali prihovárať.
09:19
One day, a young black teen came in,
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Jedného dňa vošiel mladý čierny tínedžer,
09:23
and he was visibly upset.
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ktorý bol viditeľne znepokojený.
09:27
And I decided to ask him what was wrong.
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2330
A rozhodol som sa, že sa ho spýtam,
čo sa deje.
čo sa deje.
09:30
And he told me that his mother
had been diagnosed with breast cancer.
had been diagnosed with breast cancer.
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Povedal mi, že jeho mama
bola diagnostikovaná rakovinou prsníka.
bola diagnostikovaná rakovinou prsníka.
09:35
And suddenly, this young black teenager,
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Zrazu som sa s týmto čiernym tínedžerom,
09:38
who I'd never had a meaningful
conversation or interaction with,
conversation or interaction with,
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s ktorým som nikdy nemal zmysluplnú
konverzáciu alebo interakciu,
konverzáciu alebo interakciu,
09:43
I was able to connect with,
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1719
vedel zblížiť,
09:45
because my own mother
had been diagnosed with breast cancer,
had been diagnosed with breast cancer,
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4005
pretože mojej mame tiež
diagnostikovali rakovinu prsníka
diagnostikovali rakovinu prsníka
09:49
and I could feel his pain.
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a dokázal som cítiť jeho bolesť.
09:52
On another occasion, a gay couple
came in with their son,
came in with their son,
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3740
Pri inej príležitosti vošiel gay pár
so svojím synom
so svojím synom
09:56
and it was undeniable to me
that they loved their son
that they loved their son
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a bolo pre mňa nesporné,
že svojho syna milovali
že svojho syna milovali
10:01
in the same profound ways
that I loved mine.
that I loved mine.
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tak hlboko ako som miloval
ja svojho.
ja svojho.
10:06
And suddenly, I couldn't rationalize
or justify the prejudice
or justify the prejudice
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4844
A zrazu som nemohol obhájiť
alebo zdôvodniť predsudky,
alebo zdôvodniť predsudky,
10:11
that I had in my head.
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1434
ktoré som mal v hlave.
10:13
I decided to pull the white-power
music from the inventory
music from the inventory
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Rozhodol som sa z ponuky stiahnuť
white-power hudbu,
white-power hudbu,
10:16
when I became too embarrassed
to sell it in front of my new friends.
to sell it in front of my new friends.
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3359
lebo mi bolo príliš trápne
predávať ju pred mojimi novými priateľmi.
predávať ju pred mojimi novými priateľmi.
10:20
And of course, the store
couldn't sustain itself,
couldn't sustain itself,
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Samozrejme, obchod sa nemohol udržať,
10:23
so I had to close it.
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1311
takže som ho musel zavrieť.
10:25
At that same time, I lost
nearly everything in my life.
nearly everything in my life.
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V tom čase som stratil
takmer všetko v mojom živote.
takmer všetko v mojom živote.
10:30
I used it as an opportunity to walk away
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2504
Využil som to ako príležitosť odísť
10:33
from the movement that
I'd been a part of for eight years,
I'd been a part of for eight years,
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2858
z hnutia, ktorého súčasťou som bol
osem rokov,
osem rokov,
10:35
the only identity, community and purpose
that I'd really known for most of my life.
that I'd really known for most of my life.
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623894
4402
od jedinej identity, komunity a zmyslu,
ktorého som poznal väčšinu svojho života.
ktorého som poznal väčšinu svojho života.
10:40
So I had nobody.
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1586
Takže som nemal nikoho.
10:43
I lost my livelihood
because I closed the store.
because I closed the store.
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631731
2596
Stratil som svoje živobytie,
lebo som zatvoril obchod.
lebo som zatvoril obchod.
10:46
I didn't have a great relationship
with my parents, even though they tried.
with my parents, even though they tried.
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634351
3986
Nemal som dobrý vzťah
s mojimi rodičmi, aj keď sa o to snažili.
s mojimi rodičmi, aj keď sa o to snažili.
10:50
And my wife and children left me,
181
638891
1997
A moja žena a deti ma opustili,
10:52
because I hadn't left the movement
and disengaged quickly enough.
and disengaged quickly enough.
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640912
3665
pretože som neopustil hnutie
a neodpútal sa od neho dosť rýchlo.
a neodpútal sa od neho dosť rýchlo.
10:58
And suddenly,
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646040
1184
A zrazu som opäť nevedel, kto som
11:01
I didn't know who I was again,
184
649117
1931
11:03
or where I fit in
185
651072
1260
alebo kam patrím,
11:05
or what my purpose was supposed to be.
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653044
2370
alebo aký má byť môj zmysel.
11:08
I was miserable inside,
187
656034
2317
Vnútorne som sa cítil biedne
11:10
and I often woke up in the morning
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658959
2955
a často som sa ráno zobúdzal
11:13
wishing that I hadn't.
189
661938
1484
so želaním nezobudiť sa.
11:17
About five years in,
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665590
1740
Po asi piatich rokoch
11:19
one of the few friends that I had
was concerned about my well-being,
was concerned about my well-being,
191
667354
3846
sa jedna osoba z môjho malého
okruhu priateľov bála o moje zdravie,
okruhu priateľov bála o moje zdravie,
11:23
and she came to me and she said,
192
671224
1883
prišla za mnou a povedala:
11:25
"You need to do something,
because I don't want to see you die."
because I don't want to see you die."
193
673131
3359
"Musíš niečo spraviť, pretože ťa nechcem
vidieť umierať."
vidieť umierať."
11:29
And she suggested that I go
apply for a job where she worked,
apply for a job where she worked,
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677982
3628
Navrhla, aby som sa uchádzal
o prácu tam, kde pracovala ona,
o prácu tam, kde pracovala ona,
11:33
at a company called IBM.
195
681634
1799
v spoločnosti, ktorá sa volá IBM.
11:37
Yeah, I thought she was crazy, too.
196
685158
2053
Áno, aj ja som si myslel, že sa zbláznila.
11:39
(Laughter)
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687235
1685
(smiech)
11:40
Here I was, a closeted ex-Nazi
covered in hate tattoos.
covered in hate tattoos.
198
688944
4575
Takže som bol skrytý ex-nacista
pokrytý nenávistnými tetovaniami.
pokrytý nenávistnými tetovaniami.
11:45
I didn't go to college.
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693543
1232
Nechodil som na vysokú.
11:46
I'd been kicked out of multiple
high schools multiple times.
high schools multiple times.
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694799
4075
Niekoľkokrát som bol vyhodený
z niekoľkých stredných škôl.
z niekoľkých stredných škôl.
11:52
I didn't even own a computer.
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700071
1599
Ani som nevlastnil počítač.
11:55
But I went in,
202
703384
1256
Ale išiel som
11:56
and somehow, miraculously, I got the job.
203
704664
3630
a nejakým zázrakom som tú prácu dostal.
12:01
I was thrilled.
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709636
1566
Bol som natešený.
12:04
And then I became terrified to learn
205
712218
2637
A potom som sa so zdesením dozvedel,
12:06
that they'd actually be putting me
back at my old high school,
back at my old high school,
206
714879
3561
že ma vlastne posielajú
na moju starú strednú školu,
na moju starú strednú školu,
12:10
the same one I got kicked out of twice,
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718464
2475
na tú, z ktorej ma dvakrát vyhodili,
12:13
to install their computers.
208
721892
1449
inštalovať ich počítače.
12:16
This was a high school
where I had committed acts of violence
where I had committed acts of violence
209
724483
3507
Toto bola stredná škola,
na ktorej som páchal násilné činy
na ktorej som páchal násilné činy
12:20
against students, against faculty;
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728014
2452
na študentoch, na učiteľoch;
12:22
where I had protested out in front
of the school for equal rights for whites
of the school for equal rights for whites
211
730490
4140
kde som pred školou protestoval
za rovnaké práva pre bielych,
za rovnaké práva pre bielych,
12:26
and even had a sit-in in the cafeteria
212
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3079
a kde som obsadil jedáleň,
12:29
to try and demand a white student union.
213
737757
2494
žiadajúc založenie
klubu bielych študentov.
klubu bielych študentov.
12:34
And of course, as karma would have it,
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2608
A samozrejme, vďaka karme
12:37
within the first couple of hours,
215
745289
1835
prešlo len pár hodín
12:39
who walks right by me
but Mr. Johnny Holmes,
but Mr. Johnny Holmes,
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747676
3922
a kto okolo mňa neprešiel
nik iný pán Johnny Holmes,
nik iný pán Johnny Holmes,
12:43
the tough black security guard
I had gotten in a fistfight with,
I had gotten in a fistfight with,
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751622
3386
silný čierny ochrankár
s ktorým som sa dostal do pästného súboja,
s ktorým som sa dostal do pästného súboja,
12:48
that got me kicked out the second time
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756016
2040
kvôli ktorému ma druhýkrát vyhodili
12:50
and led out in handcuffs from the school.
219
758080
2414
a vyviedli zo školy v putách.
12:53
He didn't recognize me,
220
761763
1615
Nespoznal ma,
12:56
but I saw him,
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764251
1232
ale ja som ho videl,
12:58
and I didn't know what to do.
222
766404
1402
a nevedel som, čo mám robiť.
12:59
I was frozen; I was this grown man now,
years out of the movement,
years out of the movement,
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767830
3643
Zamrzol som; už som bol dospelý muž,
roky som bol mimo hnutia
roky som bol mimo hnutia
13:03
and I was sweating and I was trembling.
224
771497
2081
a potil som sa,
a triasol som sa.
a triasol som sa.
13:06
But I decided I had to do something.
225
774533
2154
Ale rozhodol som sa,
že musím niečo urobiť.
že musím niečo urobiť.
13:09
And I decided I needed to suffer
under the weight of my past,
under the weight of my past,
226
777902
3799
A rozhodol som sa, že musím trpieť
pod ťarchou svojej minulosti,
pod ťarchou svojej minulosti,
13:13
because for five years
I had tried to outrun it.
I had tried to outrun it.
227
781725
2671
pretože päť rokov
som sa ju snažil predbehnúť.
som sa ju snažil predbehnúť.
13:17
I'd tried to make new friends
and cover my tattoos with long sleeves,
and cover my tattoos with long sleeves,
228
785105
3304
Snažil som sa nájsť nových priateľov
a skryť tetovania dlhými rukávmi,
a skryť tetovania dlhými rukávmi,
13:20
and I wouldn't admit it
229
788433
1167
a minulosť som nepriznal,
13:21
because I was afraid of being judged
230
789624
1822
pretože som sa bál odsudzovania,
13:23
the same way I had judged other people.
231
791470
2241
tak ako som ja kedysi
odsudzoval iných ľudí.
odsudzoval iných ľudí.
13:26
Well, I decided I was going to chase
Mr. Holmes out to the parking lot --
Mr. Holmes out to the parking lot --
232
794862
3984
Tak som sa rozhodol sledovať
pána Holmesa na parkovisko -
pána Holmesa na parkovisko -
13:30
probably not the smartest
decision that I made.
decision that I made.
233
798870
2503
asi nie najmúdrejšie rozhodnutie,
ktoré som urobil.
ktoré som urobil.
13:33
(Laughter)
234
801397
1271
(smiech)
13:34
But when I found him,
he was getting into his car,
he was getting into his car,
235
802692
2514
Ale keď som ho našiel,
nastupoval do auta
nastupoval do auta
13:37
and I tapped him on the shoulder.
236
805230
1973
a ja som ho poťapkal po pleci.
13:39
And when he turned around
and he recognized me,
and he recognized me,
237
807227
3156
Keď sa otočil, spoznal ma,
13:42
he took a step back because he was afraid.
238
810407
2567
ustúpil o krok dozadu, pretože sa bál.
13:46
And I didn't know what to say.
239
814907
1627
A ja som nevedel, čo mám povedať.
13:50
Finally, the words came out of my mouth,
and all I could think to say was,
and all I could think to say was,
240
818088
4040
Nakoniec z mojich úst vyšli slová
a jediné, čo som vedel povedať, bolo:
a jediné, čo som vedel povedať, bolo:
13:54
"I'm sorry."
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822152
1161
"Prepáčte."
13:56
And he embraced me,
242
824096
1476
A on ma objal
13:58
and he forgave me.
243
826391
1429
a odpustil mi.
14:01
And he encouraged me to forgive myself.
244
829877
2966
A povzbudil ma k tomu,
aby som odpustil sám sebe.
aby som odpustil sám sebe.
14:06
He recognized that it wasn't the story
of some broken go-nowhere kid
of some broken go-nowhere kid
245
834073
6090
Spoznal, že nešlo o príbeh
nejakého zlomeného zbytočného dieťaťa,
nejakého zlomeného zbytočného dieťaťa,
14:12
who was going to just
join a gang and go to prison.
join a gang and go to prison.
246
840187
3016
ktoré sa pripojí ku gangu
a pôjde do väzenia.
a pôjde do väzenia.
14:15
He knew that this was the story
of every young person who was vulnerable,
of every young person who was vulnerable,
247
843227
4523
Vedel, že toto bol príbeh každého
mladého človeka, ktorý bol zraniteľný,
mladého človeka, ktorý bol zraniteľný,
14:19
who was searching for identity,
community and purpose,
community and purpose,
248
847774
2808
ktorý hľadal identitu,
komunitu a zmysel,
komunitu a zmysel,
14:22
and then hit a wall
249
850606
1406
a potom narazil na prekážku
14:24
and was unable to find it
250
852036
1722
a nemohol ich nájsť,
14:25
and went down a dark path.
251
853782
1747
tak išiel cestou temna.
14:29
And he made me promise one thing,
252
857482
2093
A musel som sľúbiť jednu vec,
14:31
that I would tell my story
to whoever would listen.
to whoever would listen.
253
859599
3228
že poviem môj príbeh každému,
kto ho bude počúvať.
kto ho bude počúvať.
14:34
That was 18 years ago,
254
862851
1582
To bolo pred osemnástimi rokmi
14:36
and I've been doing it ever since.
255
864457
1798
a odvtedy to robím.
14:38
(Applause)
256
866737
4874
(potlesk)
14:49
You might be asking yourself right now:
257
877309
1968
Možno sa samých seba teraz pýtate:
14:51
How does a good kid from
a hardworking immigrant family
a hardworking immigrant family
258
879301
3022
Ako môže dobré dieťa
z ťažko pracujúcej rodiny imigrantov
z ťažko pracujúcej rodiny imigrantov
14:54
end up going down such a dark path?
259
882347
2843
skončiť na takej temnej ceste?
14:57
One word: potholes.
260
885214
2680
Jedno slovo: výtlky.
15:00
That's right. Potholes.
261
888508
1718
Presne tak. Výtlky.
15:02
I had a lot of potholes when I was kid.
262
890250
2533
Ako dieťa som mal veľa výtlkov.
15:05
We all had them --
263
893582
1545
Všetci sme ich mali -
15:07
you know, the things in life that we hit
264
895151
2870
poznáte to, tie veci v živote,
na ktoré narazíme,
na ktoré narazíme,
15:10
that invariably just kind of
nudge us off our path,
nudge us off our path,
265
898045
2926
ktoré nás vždy nejak
odklonia od našej cesty
odklonia od našej cesty
15:12
and if they remain unresolved
266
900995
1682
a ak ostanú nevyriešené
15:15
or untreated
267
903442
1239
alebo neliečené
15:17
or not dealt with,
268
905697
1421
alebo nevybavené,
15:19
sometimes we can get dangerously lost
down pretty dark corridors.
down pretty dark corridors.
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3763
tak sa kvôli nim niekedy môžeme stratiť
vo veľmi temných uličkách.
vo veľmi temných uličkách.
15:24
Potholes can be things like trauma,
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Výtlky môžu byť veci, akými sú trauma,
15:26
abuse, unemployment,
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zneužívanie, nezamestnanosť,
15:29
neglect,
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zanedbávanie,
15:31
untreated mental health conditions,
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neliečené psychické poruchy
15:33
even privilege.
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a dokonca aj privilégiá.
15:35
And if we hit enough potholes
on our journey in life,
on our journey in life,
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A ak narazíme na dosť výtlkov
na našej životnej ceste
na našej životnej ceste
15:39
and we don't have the resources
or the help to navigate around them
or the help to navigate around them
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a nebudeme mať prostriedky
alebo pomoc, ktorá by nás navigovala,
alebo pomoc, ktorá by nás navigovala,
15:43
or to pull us out,
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alebo nás odtiaľ vytiahla,
15:46
well, sometimes good people
end up doing bad things.
end up doing bad things.
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tak niekedy môžu dobrí ľudia skončiť tak,
že robia zlé veci.
že robia zlé veci.
15:52
One such person
who had potholes is Darrell.
who had potholes is Darrell.
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Jeden taký človek,
ktorý mal výtlky, je Darrell.
ktorý mal výtlky, je Darrell.
15:55
Darrell is from upstate New York.
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Darell je zo severného New Yorku.
15:57
He had read my memoir,
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Prečítal si moje memoáre,
15:59
and he was really upset about the ending.
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a bol naozaj znepokojený ohľadom záveru.
16:02
You see, I'd gotten out of the movement
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Viete, ja som sa z hnutia dostal
16:04
and he was still in.
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a on v ňom ešte stále bol.
16:05
And he emailed me and he said,
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Poslal mi e-mail, v ktorom napísal:
16:09
"I didn't really like the way
that turned out."
that turned out."
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"Naozaj sa mi nepáči, ako sa to skončilo."
16:11
And I said, "Well, I'm sorry."
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Ja som povedal: "No, to je mi ľúto."
16:13
(Laughter)
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(smiech)
16:15
"But if you want to talk about it,
we could certainly do that."
we could certainly do that."
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"Ale ak sa o tom chceš rozprávať,
určite by sme mohli."
určite by sme mohli."
16:18
And after a couple of weeks
of going back and forth with Darrell,
of going back and forth with Darrell,
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A po pár týždňoch
písania si s Darrellom
písania si s Darrellom
16:21
I learned he was a 31-year-old
military veteran who had been injured
military veteran who had been injured
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som sa dozvedel, že to bol
31-ročný veterán, ktorého zranili,
31-ročný veterán, ktorého zranili,
16:26
and was really angry about
not being able to go to Afghanistan
not being able to go to Afghanistan
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a bol veľmi nahnevaný,
lebo sa nemohol vrátiť do Afganistanu,
lebo sa nemohol vrátiť do Afganistanu,
16:30
to kill Muslims.
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aby zabíjal moslimov.
16:32
And one day on the phone,
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Raz mi počas telefonátu
16:34
he told me that he had seen
a Muslim man in the park praying,
a Muslim man in the park praying,
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povedal, že videl moslima
modliť sa v parku
modliť sa v parku
16:38
and that all he wanted to do
was kick him in the face.
was kick him in the face.
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a jediné, čo chcel spraviť,
bolo kopnúť ho do tváre.
bolo kopnúť ho do tváre.
16:43
I flew to Buffalo the next day,
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Ďalší deň som letel do Buffala,
16:45
and I sat down with Darrell,
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sadol som si s Darrellom
a spýtal som sa ho:
a spýtal som sa ho:
16:48
and I asked him,
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16:50
"Have you ever met
a Muslim person before?"
a Muslim person before?"
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"Už si niekedy predtým stretol moslima?"
16:54
And he said, "No!
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A on povedal: "Nie!
16:55
Why the hell would I want to do that?
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Prečo by som to dopekla chcel?
16:57
They're evil. I don't want
anything to do with them."
anything to do with them."
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Sú zlí. Nechcem mať s nimi nič spoločné."
17:01
I said, "OK."
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Povedal som: "Okej."
17:02
So I excused myself,
and I went into the bathroom
and I went into the bathroom
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Ospravedlnil som sa
a odišiel na toaletu.
a odišiel na toaletu.
17:04
and I took my phone out in the bathroom,
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Tam som vytiahol svoj mobil,
17:07
and I Googled the local mosque,
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vygooglil som si miestnu mešitu
17:09
and I called them very quietly
from the bathroom,
from the bathroom,
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a veľmi nenápadne som tam zavolal.
17:12
and I said, "Excuse me,
imam, I need a favor.
imam, I need a favor.
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Povedal som "Prepáčte, imám,
potrebujem láskavosť.
potrebujem láskavosť.
17:16
I have a Christian man
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Mám tu kresťana,
17:17
who would really love to learn more
about your religion."
about your religion."
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ktorý by sa naozaj chcel naučiť viac
o vašom náboženstve."
o vašom náboženstve."
17:20
(Laughter)
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(smiech)
17:22
"Do you mind if we stop by?"
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"Bol by problém, ak by sme prišli?"
17:26
Well, it took some convincing
for Darrell to go,
for Darrell to go,
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Nuž, stálo to nejaké to presviedčanie,
aby Darrell išiel,
aby Darrell išiel,
17:29
but finally we got there,
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ale napokon sme sa tam dostali
17:31
and when I knocked on the door,
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a keď som zaklopal na dvere,
17:32
the imam said he only had
15 minutes left for us,
15 minutes left for us,
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imám povedal, že na nás
má len 15 minút,
má len 15 minút,
17:35
because he was preparing
for a prayer service.
for a prayer service.
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pretože sa pripravoval
na modlitebnú službu.
na modlitebnú službu.
17:38
I said, "We'll take it."
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Povedal som: "Berieme."
17:40
We went in,
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Vošli sme
17:41
and two and a half hours later,
we came out after hugging and crying
we came out after hugging and crying
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a o dve a pol hodiny sme vyšli,
po objímaní a plači
po objímaní a plači
17:46
and, very strangely,
bonding over Chuck Norris for some reason.
bonding over Chuck Norris for some reason.
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a z nejakého zvláštneho dôvodu
po zbližovaní sa cez Chucka Norrisa.
po zbližovaní sa cez Chucka Norrisa.
17:50
(Laughter)
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(smiech)
17:51
I don't know what it was about that,
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Neviem, čo na tom bolo,
17:53
but that's what happened.
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ale tak sa to stalo.
17:56
And I'm happy to say now
that Darrell and the imam,
that Darrell and the imam,
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A s radosťou vám môžem povedať,
že Darrella a toho imáma
že Darrella a toho imáma
17:59
you can often find them
at the local falafel stand,
at the local falafel stand,
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môžete často vidieť
pri miestnom stánku s falafelom
pri miestnom stánku s falafelom
18:02
having lunch together.
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ako spolu obedujú.
18:03
(Applause)
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(potlesk)
18:12
You see, it's our disconnection
from each other.
from each other.
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Vidíte, je to tým,
akí sme navzájom odlúčení.
akí sme navzájom odlúčení.
18:14
Hatred is born of ignorance.
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Nenávisť sa rodí z nevedomosti.
18:17
Fear is its father,
and isolation is its mother.
and isolation is its mother.
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Strach je jej otcom
a izolácia je jej matkou.
a izolácia je jej matkou.
18:21
When we don't understand something,
we tend to be afraid of it,
we tend to be afraid of it,
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Keď niečomu nerozumieme,
zvykneme sa toho báť
zvykneme sa toho báť
18:25
and if we keep ourselves from it,
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a držíme sa od toho,
18:27
that fear grows, and sometimes,
it turns into hatred.
it turns into hatred.
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ten strach rastie a niekedy
prerastie do nenávisti.
prerastie do nenávisti.
18:31
Since I've left the movement,
I've helped over a hundred people
I've helped over a hundred people
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Odkedy som opustil hnutie,
pomohol som vyše sto ľuďom
pomohol som vyše sto ľuďom
18:34
disengage from extremist movements,
from white supremacist groups --
from white supremacist groups --
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odpútať sa od extrémistických hnutí,
od skupín za nadvládu bielych --
od skupín za nadvládu bielych --
18:37
(Applause)
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(potlesk)
18:46
to even jihadist groups.
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až po džihádistické skupiny.
18:47
And the way I do that
is not by arguing with them,
is not by arguing with them,
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Nerobím to tak, že sa s nimi hádam,
18:52
not by debating them,
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že s nimi debatujem
18:53
not by even telling them they're wrong,
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alebo tak, že im hovorím, že sa mýlia,
18:56
even though, boy, I want to sometimes.
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aj keď verte, že niekedy by som chcel.
18:58
I don't do that.
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To nerobím.
19:00
Instead, I don't push them away.
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Naopak ich neodstrkujem.
19:02
I draw them in closer,
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Vtiahnem ich bližšie
19:05
and I listen very closely
for their potholes,
for their potholes,
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a veľmi pozorne počúvam
o ich výtlkoch,
o ich výtlkoch,
19:10
and then I begin to fill them in.
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a potom ich začnem vypĺňať.
19:12
I try to make people more resilient,
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Snažím sa robiť ľudí húževnatejšími,
19:14
more self-confident,
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sebavedomejšími,
19:16
more able to have skills
to compete in the marketplace
to compete in the marketplace
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schopnejšími uplatniť sa na trhu práce,
19:20
so that they don't have
to blame the other,
to blame the other,
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aby nemuseli obviňovať iných,
19:24
the other that they've never met.
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iných, ktorých nikdy nestretli.
19:27
I'd like to just leave you
with one last thing before I go.
with one last thing before I go.
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Predtým, ako odídem, by som vám
rád povedal ešte jednu vec.
rád povedal ešte jednu vec.
19:32
Of all the people I've worked with,
they will all tell you the same thing.
they will all tell you the same thing.
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Všetci ľudia, s ktorými som pracoval,
vám povedia rovnakú vec.
vám povedia rovnakú vec.
19:36
One, they became extremists
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Po prvé, stali sa extrémistami,
19:40
because they wanted to belong,
not because of ideology or dogma.
not because of ideology or dogma.
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pretože chceli patriť,
nie kvôli ideológii a dogme.
nie kvôli ideológii a dogme.
19:44
And second, what brought them out
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A po druhé, čo ich vyviedlo preč,
19:48
was receiving compassion
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bolo získanie súcitu
19:50
from the people
they least deserved it from,
they least deserved it from,
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od ľudí, od ktorých si to
zaslúžili najmenej,
zaslúžili najmenej,
19:53
when they least deserved it.
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keď si to zaslúžili najmenej.
19:54
(Applause)
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(potlesk)
19:57
So I would like
to leave you with a challenge:
to leave you with a challenge:
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Takže by som vám rád dal výzvu:
19:59
go out there today, tomorrow --
hopefully every day --
hopefully every day --
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choďte von; dnes, zajtra --
v najlepšom prípade každý deň --
v najlepšom prípade každý deň --
20:04
find somebody that you think
is undeserving of your compassion
is undeserving of your compassion
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nájdite niekoho, o kom si myslíte,
že si nezaslúži váš súcit,
že si nezaslúži váš súcit,
20:08
and give it to them,
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a dajte im ho,
20:10
because I guarantee you,
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pretože vám garantujem,
20:12
they're the ones who need it the most.
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že oni sú tí,
ktorí ho potrebujú najviac.
ktorí ho potrebujú najviac.
20:14
Thank you very much.
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Ďakujem veľmi pekne.
20:15
(Applause)
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(potlesk)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Christian Picciolini - Counter-extremism specialistChristian Picciolini is dedicated to helping others counter racism and extremism.
Why you should listen
After leaving the white supremacist skinhead movement he helped build in America during the 1980s and 90s, Christian Picciolini earned a degree in international relations from DePaul University. He launched Goldmill Group, a global media and counter-extremism consulting firm. In 2016, he won an Emmy Award for his role in producing an anti-hate advertising campaign aimed at helping people disengage from violent extremist groups. His life since leaving the white-supremacist movement over two decades ago has been dedicated to helping others counter racism and extremism by founding such organizations as ExitUSA and Life After Hate.
Picciolini has spoken all over the world, sharing his unique and extensive knowledge, teaching all who are willing to learn about building greater peace through empathy and compassion. His involvement in the early American skinhead movement is chronicled in his memoir WHITE AMERICAN YOUTH: My Descent into America’s Most Violent Hate Movement—and How I Got Out (Hachette). He is co-developing a television docu-series based on his work helping people disengage from violent ideologies.
Christian Picciolini | Speaker | TED.com