TEDxIndianaUniversity
Euna Lee: What I learned as a prisoner in North Korea
Juna Li (Euna Lee): Šta sam naučila kao zatvorenik u Severnoj Koreji
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Marta 2009. godine, severno-korejski vojnici su zarobili novinarku Junu Li i njenu koleginicu Loru Ling dok su snimale dokumentarni film na granici sa Kinom. Sud ih je osudio na dvanaest godina prinutnog rada, ali su američke diplomate na kraju ugovorile njeno oslobađenje. U ovom iznenađujućem, veoma ljudskom govoru, Li deli svoje iskustvo o tome kako je živela kao neprijatelj u pritvoru 140 dana i o majušnim znakovima čovečnosti njenih čuvara koji su je održali u životu.
Euna Lee - Journalist
Euna Lee strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information. Full bio
Euna Lee strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I recently read about
what the young generation of workers want
what the young generation of workers want
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Nedavno sam pročitala
u časopisu „Harvard biznis rivju“
u časopisu „Harvard biznis rivju“
šta mlada generacija radnika želi.
00:17
in Harvard Business Review.
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00:19
One thing that stuck out to me
was: don't just talk about impact,
was: don't just talk about impact,
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Stvar koja je ostavila utisak
na mene je bila -
na mene je bila -
nemoj samo pričati o promeni,
već napravi promenu.
već napravi promenu.
00:24
but make an impact.
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00:26
I'm a little bit older than you,
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Malo sam starija od vas,
00:29
maybe much older than you,
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možda mnogo starija od vas,
00:31
but this is exactly the same goal
that I had when I was in college.
that I had when I was in college.
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ali ovo je baš isti cilj koji sam imala
kada sam bila na fakultetu.
kada sam bila na fakultetu.
00:37
I wanted to make my own impact
for those who live under injustice;
for those who live under injustice;
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Želela sam da sama promenim nešto
za one koji žive u nepravdi;
za one koji žive u nepravdi;
00:42
it's the reason that I became
a documentary journalist,
a documentary journalist,
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to je razlog zbog kojeg sam postala
novinarka dokumentarnih programa,
novinarka dokumentarnih programa,
00:45
the reason I became
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razlog zbog kojeg sam bila
00:47
a prisoner in North Korea for 140 days.
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zarobljenik u Severnoj Koreji 140 dana.
00:52
It was March 17, 2009.
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Bio je 17. mart 2009. godine.
00:55
It is St. Patrick's Day for all of you,
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To je Dan svetog Patrika za sve vas,
00:58
but it was the day
that turned my life upside down.
that turned my life upside down.
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ali to je bio dan koji je okrenuo
moj život naopačke.
moj život naopačke.
Moja ekipa i ja smo snimali dokumentarac
o izbeglicama iz Severne Koreje
o izbeglicama iz Severne Koreje
01:03
My team and I were making a documentary
about North Korean refugees
about North Korean refugees
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01:08
living below human life in China.
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koje su živele ispod granice
ljudskog dostojanstva u Kini.
ljudskog dostojanstva u Kini.
01:13
We were at the border.
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Bili smo na granici.
01:15
It was our last day of filming.
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Bio je to naš poslednji dan snimanja.
01:19
There was no wire fence
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Nije bilo žičane ograde,
01:22
or bars
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ili rešetaka
01:23
or sign to show that it is the border,
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ili znaka da pokaže da je to granica,
01:25
but this is a place that a lot
of North Korean defectors use
of North Korean defectors use
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ali ovo je mesto koje mnogo izbeglica
iz Severne Koreje koristi
iz Severne Koreje koristi
01:29
as an escape route.
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kao mesto za prebeg.
01:32
It was still winter,
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Još uvek je bila zima
01:34
and the river was frozen.
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i reka je bila zamrznuta.
01:37
When we were in the middle
of the frozen river,
of the frozen river,
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Kada smo bili na sredini smrznute reke,
snimali smo o uslovima hladnog vremena
01:41
we were filming about
the condition of the cold weather
the condition of the cold weather
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01:44
and the environment
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i okoline
sa kojima su stanovnici Severne Koreje
morali da se nose
morali da se nose
01:45
that North Koreans had to deal with
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01:48
when they seek their freedom.
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u potrazi za slobodom.
01:51
And suddenly, one
of my team members shouted,
of my team members shouted,
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I, iznenada, jedan član
moje ekipe je uzviknuo:
moje ekipe je uzviknuo:
01:54
"Soldiers!"
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„Vojnici!“
01:55
So I looked back,
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Osvrnula sam se
01:57
and there were two small soldiers
in green uniforms with rifles,
in green uniforms with rifles,
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i tamo su bila dva niska vojnika
u zelenim uniformama sa puškama
u zelenim uniformama sa puškama
02:03
chasing after us.
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koja su jurila za nama.
02:05
We all ran as fast as we could.
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Svi smo potrčali što smo brže mogli.
02:08
I prayed that, please
don't let them shoot my head.
don't let them shoot my head.
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Molila sam se da me ne upucaju u glavu.
02:12
And I was thinking that,
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I mislila sam
02:14
if my feet are on Chinese soil,
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da ću, ako sam na tlu Kine,
02:17
I'll be safe.
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biti sigurna.
02:18
And I made it to Chinese soil.
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I uspela sam da stignem do kineskog tla.
02:21
Then I saw my colleague
Laura Ling fall on her knees.
Laura Ling fall on her knees.
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Tada sam videla svoju koleginicu,
Loru Ling, kako je pala na kolena.
Loru Ling, kako je pala na kolena.
02:26
I didn't know what to do
at that short moment,
at that short moment,
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Nisam znala šta da uradim
u tom trenutku,
u tom trenutku,
02:29
but I knew that I could not
leave her alone there
leave her alone there
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ali sam znala da je ne mogu
ostaviti samu tamo
ostaviti samu tamo
02:31
when she said,
"Euna, I can't feel my legs."
"Euna, I can't feel my legs."
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kada je rekla: „Juna, ne osećam noge.“
02:35
In a flash, we were surrounded
by these two Korean soldiers.
by these two Korean soldiers.
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U trenu su nas ta dva
korejska vojnika okružila.
korejska vojnika okružila.
02:40
They were not much bigger than us,
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Nisu bili puno viši od nas,
02:43
but they were determined
to take us to their army base.
to take us to their army base.
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ali bili su odlučni da nas odvedu
u svoju vojnu bazu.
u svoju vojnu bazu.
02:47
I begged and yelled for any kind of help,
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Molila sam i vikala za bilo kakvu pomoć
02:51
hoping that someone
would show up from China.
would show up from China.
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u nadi da će se neko pojaviti iz Kine.
02:55
Here I was, being stubborn
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Stajala sam tamo,
ponašajući se tvrdoglavo
ponašajući se tvrdoglavo
02:57
towards a trained soldier with a gun.
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prema obučenom naoružanom vojniku.
03:00
I looked at his eyes.
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Pogledala sam ga u oči.
03:04
He was just a boy.
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Bio je tek dečak.
03:07
At that moment,
he raised his rifle to hit me,
he raised his rifle to hit me,
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U tom trenutku je podigao
pušku da me udari,
pušku da me udari,
03:10
but I saw that he was hesitating.
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ali sam videla da je oklevao.
03:12
His eyes were shaking,
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Oči su mu poigravale,
03:14
and his rifle was still up in the air.
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a njegova puška je i dalje bila podignuta.
03:18
So I shouted at him,
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Stoga sam viknula na njega:
03:20
"OK, OK, I'll walk with you."
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„Okej, okej, poći ću sa vama.“
03:23
And I got up.
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Ustala sam.
03:26
When we arrived at their army base,
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Kada smo stigli u njihovu vojnu bazu,
03:29
my head was spinning
with these worst-case scenarios,
with these worst-case scenarios,
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vrtelo mi se u glavi
od svih ovih mogućih loših ishoda,
od svih ovih mogućih loših ishoda,
03:33
and my colleague's
statement wasn't helping.
statement wasn't helping.
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a izjava moje koleginice
nije bila od pomoći.
nije bila od pomoći.
03:36
She said, "We are the enemy."
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Rekla je: „Mi smo neprijatelj.“
03:39
She was right: we were the enemy.
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Bila je u pravu - bili smo neprijatelj.
03:43
And I was supposed to be frightened, too.
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Takođe je trebalo da se bojim.
03:46
But I kept having these odd experiences.
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Ali, neprekidno sam imala
ova čudna iskustva.
ova čudna iskustva.
03:49
This time, an officer brought me his coat
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Ovoga puta, jedan oficir
mi je doneo svoj kaput
mi je doneo svoj kaput
03:53
to keep me warm,
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da mi bude toplo
03:55
because I lost my coat on the frozen river
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zato što sam izgubila svoj kaput
na zaleđenoj reci
na zaleđenoj reci
dok sam se borila
sa jednim od ovih vojnika.
sa jednim od ovih vojnika.
03:59
while battling with one of these soldiers.
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04:02
I will tell you what I mean
by these odd experiences.
by these odd experiences.
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Reći ću vam na kakva
čudna iskustva mislim.
čudna iskustva mislim.
04:07
I grew up in South Korea.
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Odrasla sam u Južnoj Koreji.
04:09
To us, North Korea was always the enemy,
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Za nas, Severna Koreja je
uvek bila neprijatelj,
uvek bila neprijatelj,
04:13
even before I was born.
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čak i pre nego što sam se rodila.
04:15
South and North have been
under armistice for 63 years,
under armistice for 63 years,
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Jug i Sever su u primirju 63 godine,
04:21
since the end of the Korean War.
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od kraja Korejskog rata.
04:23
And growing up in the South
in the '80s and '90s,
in the '80s and '90s,
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Dok smo odrastali na Jugu
tokom 80-ih i 90-ih godina,
tokom 80-ih i 90-ih godina,
04:27
we were taught propaganda
about North Korea.
about North Korea.
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slušali smo propagandu o Severnoj Koreji.
04:33
And we heard so many graphic stories,
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Čuli smo toliko slikovitih priča,
04:35
such as, a little young boy
being brutally killed
being brutally killed
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kao što je priča o malom dečaku
kojeg su severnokorejski špijuni
kojeg su severnokorejski špijuni
04:39
by North Korean spies
just because he said,
just because he said,
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brutalno ubili samo zato što je rekao:
„Ne volim komuniste.“
04:43
"I don't like communists."
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04:45
Or, I watched this cartoon series
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Ili, gledala sam seriju crtanih filmova
o južnokorejskom dečaku
04:49
about a young South Korean boy
defeating these fat, big, red pig,
defeating these fat, big, red pig,
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koji je poražavao
ovu veliku, debelu, crvenu svinju
ovu veliku, debelu, crvenu svinju
04:54
which represented the North Koreans'
first leader at the time.
first leader at the time.
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koja je predstavljala vođu
Severne Koreje u to vreme.
Severne Koreje u to vreme.
05:00
And the effect of hearing
these horrible stories over and over
these horrible stories over and over
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A posledica neprekidnog slušanja
ovih užasnih priča
ovih užasnih priča
05:04
instilled one word in a young mind:
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usadila je jednu reč u moju mladu glavu -
05:08
"enemy."
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„neprijatelj“.
05:10
And I think at some point,
I dehumanized them,
I dehumanized them,
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Mislim da sam ih
u nekom trenutku dehumanizovala
u nekom trenutku dehumanizovala
05:14
and the people of North Korea
became equated
became equated
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i stanovnici Severne Koreje
su postali izjednačeni
su postali izjednačeni
05:19
with the North Korean government.
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sa vladom Severne Koreje.
05:23
Now, back to my detention.
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Da se vratim svom pritvoru.
05:25
It was the second day
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Bio je drugi dan
05:28
of being in a cell.
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boravka u ćeliji.
05:30
I had not slept
since I was out at the border.
since I was out at the border.
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Nisam spavala otkada sam bila
napolju na granici.
napolju na granici.
05:34
This young guard came to my cell
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Ovaj mladi čuvar je došao u moju ćeliju,
05:37
and offered me this small boiled egg
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ponudio mi malo kuvano jaje
05:41
and said, "This will give you
strength to keep going."
strength to keep going."
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i rekao: „Ovo će ti dati
snagu da nastaviš.“
snagu da nastaviš.“
05:46
Do you know what it is like,
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Znate li kako izgleda
05:49
receiving a small kindness
in the enemy's hand?
in the enemy's hand?
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primiti mali znak pažnje
iz ruke neprijatelja?
iz ruke neprijatelja?
Kada god su bili ljubazni prema meni,
05:54
Whenever they were kind to me,
I thought the worst case
I thought the worst case
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pomislila sam da me čeka najgore
nakon te ljubaznosti.
nakon te ljubaznosti.
05:57
was waiting for me after the kindness.
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06:01
One officer noticed my nervousness.
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Jedan oficir je primetio moju nervozu.
06:04
He said, "Did you think
we were all these red pigs?"
we were all these red pigs?"
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Rekao je: „Da li misliš
da smo svi mi crvene svinje?“,
da smo svi mi crvene svinje?“,
06:09
referring to the cartoon
that I just showed you.
that I just showed you.
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aludirajući na crtani film
koji sam vam upravo pokazala.
koji sam vam upravo pokazala.
06:15
Every day was like a psychological battle.
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Svaki dan je ličio na psihološku borbu.
06:18
The interrogator had me sit at a table
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Istražitelj me je postavljao za sto
06:21
six days a week
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šest dana u nedelji
06:23
and had me writing down
about my journey, my work,
about my journey, my work,
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i primoravao me da pišem
o svom putovanju, radu,
o svom putovanju, radu,
06:27
over and over until I wrote down
the confession that they wanted to hear.
the confession that they wanted to hear.
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iznova i iznova, dok nisam napisala
priznanje koje su želeli da čuju.
priznanje koje su želeli da čuju.
06:33
After about three months of detention,
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Nakon oko tri meseca pritvora,
06:36
the North Korean court sentenced me
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sud Severne Koreje me je osudio
06:41
to 12 years in a labor camp.
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na dvanaest godina prinudnog rada.
06:44
So I was just sitting in my room
to be transferred.
to be transferred.
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Stoga sam samo sedela u svojoj sobi
i čekala da budem prebačena.
i čekala da budem prebačena.
06:48
At that time, I really had
nothing else to do,
nothing else to do,
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Tada zaista nisam imala
ništa drugo da radim,
ništa drugo da radim,
06:50
so I paid attention
to these two female guards
to these two female guards
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pa sam posmatrala dva ženska čuvara
i slušala šta su pričale.
06:53
and listened to what
they were talking about.
they were talking about.
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06:56
Guard A was older,
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Čuvar A je bila starija
06:59
and she studied English.
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i studirala je engleski.
07:01
She seemed like she came
from an affluent family.
from an affluent family.
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Delovala je kao da potiče
iz imućne porodice.
iz imućne porodice.
07:05
She often showed up
with these colorful dresses,
with these colorful dresses,
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Često se pojavljivala
u raznobojnim haljinama
u raznobojnim haljinama
07:07
and then loved to show off.
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i tada je volela da se pravi važna.
07:10
And Guard B was the younger one,
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Čuvar B je bila mlađa
07:13
and she was a really good singer.
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i veoma je lepo pevala.
07:16
She loved to sing Celine Dion's
"My Heart Will Go On" --
"My Heart Will Go On" --
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Volela je da peva pesmu Selin Dion
„Moje srce će nastaviti“;
„Moje srce će nastaviti“;
07:21
sometimes too much.
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ponekad previše.
07:22
She knew just how
to torture me without knowing.
to torture me without knowing.
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Znala je kako da me nesvesno muči.
07:26
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
07:28
And this girl spent a lot of time
in the morning to put on makeup,
in the morning to put on makeup,
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Ova devojka je provodila mnogo vremena
u nanošenju šminke ujutru,
u nanošenju šminke ujutru,
07:34
like you can see in any young girl's life.
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kao što možete videti u životu
svake druge mlade devojke.
svake druge mlade devojke.
07:39
And they loved to watch
this Chinese drama,
this Chinese drama,
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Volele su da gledaju kineske drame -
07:43
a better quality production.
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produkciju boljeg kvaliteta.
07:45
I remember Guard B said,
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Sećam se da je čuvar B rekla:
07:49
"I can no longer watch our TV shows
after watching this."
after watching this."
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„Ne mogu više da gledam
naše televizijske emisije nakon ovoga.“
naše televizijske emisije nakon ovoga.“
07:54
She got scolded
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Prekoreli su je
07:55
for degrading her own country's
produced TV shows.
produced TV shows.
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zbog omalovažavanja televizijskih emisija
snimljenih u njenoj državi.
snimljenih u njenoj državi.
08:00
Guard B had more
of a free mind than Guard A,
of a free mind than Guard A,
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Čuvar B je bila slobodoumnija nego čuvar A
08:04
and she often got scolded by Guard A
whenever she expressed herself.
whenever she expressed herself.
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i čuvar A ju je često korila
kad god bi rekla šta misli.
kad god bi rekla šta misli.
08:10
One day, they invited
all these female colleagues --
all these female colleagues --
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Jednog dana su pozvale sve koleginice -
08:13
I don't know where they came from --
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ne znam odakle su došle -
08:15
to where I was held,
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da dođu na mesto
gde sam ja bila zatvorena,
gde sam ja bila zatvorena,
08:18
and they invited me
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a mene su pozvale
08:19
to their guard room
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u svoju prostoriju za čuvare
08:21
and asked
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i pitale su me
08:23
if one-night stands
really happen in the US.
really happen in the US.
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da li veze za jednu noć
zaista postoje u Americi.
zaista postoje u Americi.
08:26
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
08:30
This is the country where
young couples are not even allowed
young couples are not even allowed
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Ovo je država u kojoj mladim parovima
nije čak ni dozvoljeno
nije čak ni dozvoljeno
08:35
to hold hands in public.
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da se drže za ruke u javnosti.
08:36
I had no idea where they
had gotten this information,
had gotten this information,
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Nisam imala pojma
kako su došle do te informacije,
kako su došle do te informacije,
08:39
but they were shy and giggly
even before I said anything.
even before I said anything.
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ali bile su postiđene i kikotale su se
čak i pre nego što sam išta rekla.
čak i pre nego što sam išta rekla.
08:44
I think we all forgot
that I was their prisoner,
that I was their prisoner,
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Mislim da smo sve zaboravile
da sam bila njihov zarobljenik
da sam bila njihov zarobljenik
08:48
and it was like going back
to my high school classroom again.
to my high school classroom again.
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i delovalo je kao da sam se ponovo vratila
u svoju učionicu u srednjoj školi.
u svoju učionicu u srednjoj školi.
08:53
And I learned that these girls also
grew up watching a similar cartoon,
grew up watching a similar cartoon,
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Saznala sam da su ove devojke takođe
odrasle gledajući sličan crtani film,
odrasle gledajući sličan crtani film,
08:59
but just propaganda towards
South Korea and the US.
South Korea and the US.
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jedino sa propagandom usmerenom
ka Južnoj Koreji i Americi.
ka Južnoj Koreji i Americi.
09:04
I started to understand where
these people's anger was coming from.
these people's anger was coming from.
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Počela sam da shvatam
odakle je bes ovih ljudi dolazio.
odakle je bes ovih ljudi dolazio.
09:09
If these girls grew up
learning that we are enemies,
learning that we are enemies,
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Ako su ove devojke odrasle učeći
da smo mi neprijatelj,
da smo mi neprijatelj,
09:13
it was just natural
that they would hate us
that they would hate us
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bilo je potpuno prirodno da nas mrze,
09:16
just as I feared them.
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kao što sam se ja njih plašila.
09:20
But at that moment, we were all just girls
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Međutim, u tom trenutku,
bile smo samo devojke
bile smo samo devojke
09:23
who shared the same interests,
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koje su delile ista interesovanja
09:26
beyond our ideologies that separated us.
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van naših ideologija
koje su nas razdvajale.
koje su nas razdvajale.
09:31
I shared these stories with my boss
at Current TV at the time
at Current TV at the time
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Podelila sam ove priče sa svojim
tadašnjim šefom na TV stanici „Karent“
tadašnjim šefom na TV stanici „Karent“
09:36
after I came home.
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nakon što sam došla kući.
09:37
His first reaction was,
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Njegova prva reakcija je bila:
09:40
"Euna, have you heard
of Stockholm Syndrome?"
of Stockholm Syndrome?"
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„Juna, da li si čula
za stokholmski sindrom?“
za stokholmski sindrom?“
09:44
Yes, and I clearly remember
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Da, i jasno se sećam
09:49
the feeling of fear
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osećaja straha,
09:50
and being threatened,
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pretnji
09:53
and tension rising up
between me and the interrogator
between me and the interrogator
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i rasta napetosti
između mene i istražitelja
između mene i istražitelja
kada smo pričali o politici.
09:57
when we talked about politics.
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09:59
There definitely was a wall
that we couldn't climb over.
that we couldn't climb over.
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Sasvim sigurno je postojao zid
koji nismo mogli preskočiti.
koji nismo mogli preskočiti.
10:04
But we were able to see
each other as human beings
each other as human beings
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Ipak, mogli smo videti
jedno drugo kao ljudska bića
jedno drugo kao ljudska bića
10:08
when we talked about family,
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kada smo pričali o porodici,
10:10
everyday life,
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svakodnevnom životu
10:12
the importance of the future
for our children.
for our children.
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i važnosti budućnosti naše dece.
10:18
It was about a month before I came home.
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Bilo je to mesec dana
pre nego što sam došla kući.
pre nego što sam došla kući.
10:21
I got really sick.
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Veoma sam se razbolela.
10:23
Guard B stopped by my room to say goodbye,
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Čuvar B je navratila
do moje sobe da se pozdravi
do moje sobe da se pozdravi
zato što je napuštala centar za pritvor.
10:27
because she was leaving
the detention center.
the detention center.
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10:33
She made sure that no one watched us,
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Pobrinula se za to
da nas niko ne gleda,
da nas niko ne gleda,
10:36
no one heard us,
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ni čuje,
10:37
and quietly said,
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i tiho je rekla:
„Nadam se da ćes se uskoro oporaviti
10:39
"I hope you get better
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10:41
and go back to your family soon."
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i vratiti svojoj porodici.“
10:45
It is these people --
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To su ovi ljudi -
10:47
the officer who brought me his coat,
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oficir koji mi je doneo svoj kaput,
10:51
the guard who offered me a boiled egg,
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čuvar koji mi je ponudio kuvano jaje,
10:55
these female guards who asked me
about dating life in the US --
about dating life in the US --
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ove žene čuvari koje su me pitale
o zabavljanju u Americi -
o zabavljanju u Americi -
10:59
they are the ones
that I remember of North Korea:
that I remember of North Korea:
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oni su ti kojih se sećam
iz Severne Koreje -
iz Severne Koreje -
11:04
humans just like us.
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ljudska bića kao mi.
11:07
North Koreans and I were not
ambassadors of our countries,
ambassadors of our countries,
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Severnokoreanci i ja nismo bili
ambasadori svojih država,
ambasadori svojih država,
11:13
but I believe that we were representing
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ali mislim da smo predstavljali
11:16
the human race.
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ljudsku rasu.
11:20
Now I'm back home and back to my life.
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Sada sam se vratila kući i svom životu.
11:24
The memory of these people
has blurred as time has passed.
has blurred as time has passed.
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Sećanje na ove ljude bledi
kako vreme prolazi.
kako vreme prolazi.
11:29
And I'm in this place
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Nalazim se na ovom mestu
gde čitam i slušam
kako Severna Koreja provocira SAD.
kako Severna Koreja provocira SAD.
11:31
where I read and hear
about North Korea provoking the US.
about North Korea provoking the US.
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11:36
I realized how easy it is
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Shvatam koliko je lako
11:39
to see them as an enemy again.
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ponovo ih videti kao neprijatelja.
11:43
But I have to keep reminding myself
that when I was over there,
that when I was over there,
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Međutim, moram da nastavim
da se podsećam da, kada sam bila tamo,
da se podsećam da, kada sam bila tamo,
11:49
I was able to see humanity
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da sam mogla da vidim čovečnost,
11:52
over hatred
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a ne samo mržnju
11:53
in my enemy's eyes.
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u očima neprijatelja.
11:56
Thank you.
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Hvala.
(Aplauz)
11:58
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Euna Lee - JournalistEuna Lee strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information.
Why you should listen
A seasoned journalist with more than years of experience, Euna Lee is a television executive producer for Voice of America's Korean Service (VOA). Prior to VOA, she worked for Fusion media, AJ+ and Al Jazeera TV networks.
Lee’s name became widely known after she was captured by the North Korean regime while covering a human trafficking story for Current TV, a cable network co-founded by former Vice President Al Gore. She wrote a memoir, The World is Bigger Now, about her experience while detained in North Korea for 140 days.
Lee has received various awards for her fearless work, including McGill Medal by University of Georgia and Glamour magazine's Women of the Year Award in 2009. At VOA, she strives to be a voice for the voiceless and a window for those with no access to outside information. Born and raised in South Korea, Lee holds a master’s degree in journalism from Columbia University.
Euna Lee | Speaker | TED.com