TEDWomen 2015
Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin: A hilarious celebration of lifelong female friendship
Jane Fonda i Lily Tomlin: Urnebesna svetkovina jednog ženskog prijateljstva koje traje cijeli život
Filmed:
Readability: 3.6
3,843,912 views
Legendarni duo, Jane Fonda i Lily Tomlin, prijateljice su već desetljećima. U otvorenom, nježnom i opsežnom razgovoru koji je vodila Pat Mitchell, njih tri raspravljaju o dugovječnosti, feminizmu, razlikama između muškog i ženskog prijateljstava, o tome što znači dobar život i o ženskoj ulozi u budućnosti našeg planeta. "Ne znam ni što bih radila bez svojih prijateljica", kaže Fonda. "Postojim jer imam svoje prijateljice."
Jane Fonda - Actor and activist
Jane Fonda has had three extraordinary careers (so far): Oscar-winning actor, fitness guru, impassioned activist. Full bioLily Tomlin - Comedian and actor
Lily Tomlin has been honored by the Kennedy Center and awarded the Mark Twain Prize -- and she's still making vital, hilarious comedy. Full bio
Jane Fonda has had three extraordinary careers (so far): Oscar-winning actor, fitness guru, impassioned activist. Full bioLily Tomlin - Comedian and actor
Lily Tomlin has been honored by the Kennedy Center and awarded the Mark Twain Prize -- and she's still making vital, hilarious comedy. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Pat Mitchell: So I was thinking
about female friendship a lot,
about female friendship a lot,
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Pat Mitchell: Dakle, mnogo sam razmišljala
o ženskom prijateljstvu
o ženskom prijateljstvu
00:15
and by the way, these two women,
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i, usput, ove dvije žene,
00:18
I'm very honored to say,
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čast mi je što to mogu reći,
00:19
have been my friends
for a very long time, too.
for a very long time, too.
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jako dugo su moje prijateljice.
00:22
Jane Fonda: Yes we have.
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Jane Fonda: Da, jesmo.
00:23
PM: And one of the things
that I read about female friendship
that I read about female friendship
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PM: A nešto što čitam
o ženskom prijateljstvu
o ženskom prijateljstvu
00:27
is something that Cervantes said.
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je nešto što je Cervantes rekao.
00:28
He said, "You can tell
a lot about someone,"
a lot about someone,"
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Rekao je: "Možeš mnogo toga
zaključiti o nekome",
zaključiti o nekome",
00:32
in this case a woman,
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u ovom slučaju o ženi,
00:33
"by the company that she keeps."
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"na osnovu toga s kim se druži."
00:35
So let's start with --
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Pa, započnimo --
00:37
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
00:40
JF: We're in big trouble.
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JF: Nadrapale smo.
00:41
Lily Tomlin: Hand me one of those waters,
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Lily Tomlin: Dodaj mi jednu vodu,
00:43
I'm extremely dry.
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jako sam žedna.
00:45
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
00:53
JF: You're taking up our time.
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JF: Oduzimaš nam vrijeme.
00:55
We have a very limited --
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Imamo vrlo ograničeno --
00:56
LT: Just being with her
sucks the life out of me.
sucks the life out of me.
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LT: Samo njeno prisustvo
isisava život iz mene.
isisava život iz mene.
00:59
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:02
JF: You ain't seen nothing yet.
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JF: Tek ćeš vidjeti.
01:03
Anyway -- sorry.
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Kako bilo, ispričavam se.
01:05
PM: So tell me, what do you
look for in a friend?
look for in a friend?
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PM: Recite mi,
što tražite kod prijatelja?
što tražite kod prijatelja?
01:09
LT: I look for someone
who has a sense of fun,
who has a sense of fun,
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LT: Tražim nekoga tko se zna zabavljati,
01:12
who's audacious,
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tko je odvažan,
01:15
who's forthcoming, who has politics,
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tko je susretljiv, razumije se u politiku,
01:18
who has even a small scrap
of passion for the planet,
of passion for the planet,
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tko ima imalo strasti za ovaj planet,
01:23
someone who's decent,
has a sense of justice
has a sense of justice
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tko je pristojan, ima osjećaj za pravdu
01:26
and who thinks I'm worthwhile.
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i tko me smatra vrijednom pažnje.
01:28
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:30
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
01:34
JF: You know, I was thinking this morning,
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JF: Znate, razmišljala sam jutros,
ne znam ni što bih radila
bez svojih prijateljica.
bez svojih prijateljica.
01:36
I don't even know what I would do
without my women friends.
without my women friends.
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01:39
I mean it's, "I have my friends,
therefore I am."
therefore I am."
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Mislim, to je ono:
"Imam prijatelje, dakle, postojim."
"Imam prijatelje, dakle, postojim."
01:42
LT: (Laughter)
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LT: (Smijeh)
01:43
JF: No, it's true.
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JF: Ne, istina je.
01:45
I exist because I have
my women friends. They --
my women friends. They --
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Ja postojim jer imam prijateljice. One...
01:48
You're one of them.
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Ti si jedna od njih.
01:49
I don't know about you. But anyway --
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Ne znam za tebe, ali kako bilo --
01:51
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:52
You know, they make me stronger,
they make me smarter,
they make me smarter,
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Znate, zbog njih sam jača, pametnija,
01:55
they make me braver.
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hrabrija.
01:56
They tap me on the shoulder when I might
be in need of course-correcting.
be in need of course-correcting.
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Potapšaju me po ramenu
kad možda ne idem u pravom smjeru.
kad možda ne idem u pravom smjeru.
02:01
And most of them are
a good deal younger than me, too.
a good deal younger than me, too.
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A većinom su i prilično mlađe od mene.
02:04
You know? I mean, it's nice --
LT: Thank you.
LT: Thank you.
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Znate? Mislim, lijepo je to...
LT: Hvala ti.
LT: Hvala ti.
02:06
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:09
JF: No, I do, I include you in that,
because listen, you know --
because listen, you know --
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JF: Ne, zaista, i ti si dio toga
jer, slušaj, znaš,
jer, slušaj, znaš,
02:12
it's nice to have somebody still around
to play with and learn from
to play with and learn from
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lijepo je i dalje imati nekoga
blizu sebe za igru i učenje
blizu sebe za igru i učenje
02:15
when you're getting toward the end.
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kada se bližite kraju.
02:17
I'm approaching --
I'll be there sooner than you.
I'll be there sooner than you.
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Približavam se, stići ću tamo prije tebe.
02:19
LT: No, I'm glad to have you
parallel aging alongside me.
parallel aging alongside me.
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LT: Ne, drago mi je što stariš
paralelno sa mnom.
paralelno sa mnom.
02:22
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:24
JF: I'm showing you the way.
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JF: Pokazujem ti kako.
02:26
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:27
LT: Well, you are and you have.
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LT: Pa, zaista to radiš i radila si.
02:29
PM: Well, as we grow older,
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PM: Dakle, kako starimo
02:30
and as we go through
different kinds of life's journeys,
different kinds of life's journeys,
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i kako prolazimo kroz
različite vrste životnih iskustava,
različite vrste životnih iskustava,
02:33
what do you do to keep
your friendships vital and alive?
your friendships vital and alive?
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što radite kako biste održale
prijateljstvo vitalnim i živim?
prijateljstvo vitalnim i živim?
02:38
LT: Well you have to use a lot of --
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LT: Pa, morate koristiti mnogo --
02:39
JF: She doesn't invite me over much,
I'll tell you that.
I'll tell you that.
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JF: Ne poziva me često k sebi,
to vam mogu reći.
to vam mogu reći.
LT: Moram dosta koristiti
društvene mreže.
društvene mreže.
02:42
LT: I have to use a lot of social media --
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02:44
You be quiet now. And so --
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Ti, tiho tamo. I tako --
02:46
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:48
LT: And I look through my emails,
I look through my texts
I look through my texts
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LT: I pregledam mailove, SMS-ove,
02:51
to find my friends,
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kako bih našla prijatelje
02:52
so I can answer them
as quickly as possible,
as quickly as possible,
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i odgovorila im što je brže moguće,
02:54
because I know they need my counsel.
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jer znam da im je potreban moj savjet.
02:57
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
Potrebna im je moja podrška,
03:00
They need my support,
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03:01
because most of my friends
are writers, or activists, or actors,
are writers, or activists, or actors,
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jer su moji prijatelji većinom
pisci, aktivisti ili glumci,
pisci, aktivisti ili glumci,
03:04
and you're all three ...
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a ti si sve to,
03:05
and a long string
of other descriptive phrases,
of other descriptive phrases,
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i čitav niz drugih opisnih fraza,
03:09
and I want to get to you
as soon as possible,
as soon as possible,
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i želim ti odgovoriti što je prije moguće,
03:13
I want you to know that I'm there for you.
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želim da znaš da sam tu za tebe.
03:15
JF: Do you do emojis?
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JF: Koristiš li emotikone?
03:17
LT: Oh ...
JF: No?
JF: No?
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LT: Oh...
JF: Ne?
JF: Ne?
03:19
LT: That's embarrassing.
JF: I'm really into emojis.
JF: I'm really into emojis.
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LT: Sram me je.
JF: Ja baš volim emotikone.
JF: Ja baš volim emotikone.
LT: Ne, ja ispisujem...
03:21
LT: No, I spell out my --
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03:23
I spell out my words of happiness
and congratulations,
and congratulations,
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Ispisujem svoje izraze sreće, čestitke
03:27
and sadness.
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i tugu.
03:29
JF: You spell it right out --
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JF: Ispisuješ sve --
LT: Ispisujem svako slovo.
03:30
LT: I spell it, every letter.
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03:32
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
03:33
JF: Such a purist.
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JF: Kakva puritanka.
03:35
You know, as I've gotten older,
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Znate, kako starim,
03:37
I've understood more
the importance of friendships,
the importance of friendships,
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sve više razumijem značaj prijateljstva
03:40
and so, I really make an effort
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i zato se zaista trudim
03:42
to reach out and make play dates --
not let too much time go by.
not let too much time go by.
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dogovarati susrete i ne dozvoliti
da prođe previše vremena.
da prođe previše vremena.
03:46
I read a lot
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Puno čitam,
03:48
so, as Lily knows all too well,
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kao što Lily i predobro zna,
knjige koje mi se svide
šaljem prijateljicama.
šaljem prijateljicama.
03:50
my books that I like,
I send to my friends.
I send to my friends.
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LT: Kad smo saznale da ćemo biti ovdje,
03:52
LT: When we knew we would be here today
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poslala si mi puno knjiga o ženama
i ženskim prijateljstvima,
i ženskim prijateljstvima,
03:54
you sent me a lot of books
about women, female friendships,
about women, female friendships,
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03:56
and I was so surprised
to see how many books,
to see how many books,
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i bila sam iznenađena
tolikim brojem knjiga,
tolikim brojem knjiga,
koliko je istraživanja
napravljeno u zadnje vrijeme.
napravljeno u zadnje vrijeme.
04:00
how much research
has been done recently --
has been done recently --
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04:02
JF: And were you grateful?
LT: I was grateful.
LT: I was grateful.
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JF: I jesi li mi bila zahvalna?
LT: Bila sam zahvalna.
LT: Bila sam zahvalna.
04:05
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:10
PM: And --
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PM: I --
04:11
LT: Wait, no, it's really important
because this is another example
because this is another example
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LT: Čekajte, ne, ovo je zaista važno
jer ovo je još jedan primjer
jer ovo je još jedan primjer
04:14
of how women are overlooked,
put aside, marginalized.
put aside, marginalized.
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kako su žene zapostavljene,
ostavljene po strani, marginalizirane.
ostavljene po strani, marginalizirane.
04:18
There's been very little
research done on us,
research done on us,
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Vrlo malo istraživanja
je obavljeno na nama,
je obavljeno na nama,
04:21
even though we volunteered lots of times.
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iako smo volontirale više puta.
04:23
JF: That's for sure.
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JF: To sigurno.
04:24
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:26
LT: This is really exciting,
and you all will be interested in this.
and you all will be interested in this.
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LT: Ovo je vrlo uzbudljivo
i svima će biti zanimljivo.
i svima će biti zanimljivo.
Istraživanje Medicinskog fakulteta
na Harvardu je pokazalo
na Harvardu je pokazalo
04:30
The Harvard Medical School study has shown
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04:32
that women who have
close female friendships
close female friendships
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da su žene koje imaju bliske prijateljice
04:37
are less likely to develop impairments --
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manje podložne pogoršanjima --
04:40
physical impairments as they age,
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fizičkim pogoršanjima kako stare,
04:42
and they are likely to be seen
to be living much more vital, exciting --
to be living much more vital, exciting --
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i češće daju dojam da žive
vitalnije, uzbudljivije...
vitalnije, uzbudljivije...
04:48
JF: And longer --
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JF: I duže.
04:49
LT: Joyful lives.
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LT: Radosnije živote.
JF: Živimo pet godina duže od muškaraca.
04:50
JF: We live five years longer than men.
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04:52
LT: I think I'd trade the years for joy.
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LT: Mislim da bih mijenjala
godine za užitak.
godine za užitak.
04:54
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:58
LT: But the most important
part is they found --
part is they found --
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LT: Ali najvažniji dio je da su otkrili,
05:01
the results were so exciting
and so conclusive --
and so conclusive --
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rezultati su bili tako uzbudljivi
i tako uvjerljivi,
i tako uvjerljivi,
05:04
the researchers found
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istraživači su otkrili
05:06
that not having close female friends
is detrimental to your health,
is detrimental to your health,
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da je odsustvo bliskih prijateljica
štetno za vaše zdravlje,
štetno za vaše zdravlje,
05:12
as much as smoking or being overweight.
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jednako koliko i pušenje
ili prekomjerna težina.
ili prekomjerna težina.
05:15
JF: And there's something else, too --
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JF: Tu je i još nešto...
LT: Rekla sam svoje pa...
05:17
LT: I've said my part, so ...
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05:18
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
05:19
JF: OK, well, listen to my part,
because there's an additional thing.
because there's an additional thing.
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JF: U redu, poslušaj sada moj dio,
jer ima tu još nešto.
jer ima tu još nešto.
05:23
Because they only --
for years, decades --
for years, decades --
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Jer oni su jedino, godinama, desetljećima,
05:25
they only researched men when they
were trying to understand stress,
were trying to understand stress,
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jedino su istraživali muškarce
kada su pokušavali razumjeti stres,
kada su pokušavali razumjeti stres,
05:30
only very recently have they researched
what happens to women when we're stressed,
what happens to women when we're stressed,
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tek su nedavno počeli istraživati
što se događa ženama kad su pod stresom,
što se događa ženama kad su pod stresom,
05:34
and it turns out
that when we're stressed -- women,
that when we're stressed -- women,
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i ispostavilo se da kada smo
mi žene pod stresom,
mi žene pod stresom,
05:38
our bodies get flooded by oxytocin.
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naša tijela preplavi oksitocin.
05:42
Which is a feel-good, calming,
stress-reducing hormone.
stress-reducing hormone.
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To je hormon dobrog raspoloženja,
koji smiruje i umanjuje stres.
koji smiruje i umanjuje stres.
05:45
Which is also increased
when we're with our women friends.
when we're with our women friends.
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Njegova razina raste
i kada smo s prijateljicama.
i kada smo s prijateljicama.
05:50
And I do think that's one reason
why we live longer.
why we live longer.
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I mislim da je to jedan od razloga
zašto živimo duže.
zašto živimo duže.
05:54
And I feel so bad for men
because they don't have that.
because they don't have that.
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I žao mi je muškaraca jer oni to nemaju.
05:56
Testosterone in men
diminishes the effects of oxytocin.
diminishes the effects of oxytocin.
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Testosteron kod muškaraca
smanjuje učinak oksitocina.
smanjuje učinak oksitocina.
06:01
LT: Well, when you and I
and Dolly made "9 to 5" ...
and Dolly made "9 to 5" ...
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LT: Pa kad smo ti, ja i Dolly
po cijeli dan...
po cijeli dan...
06:04
JF: Oh --
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JF: Oh...
LT: Smijale smo se, da,
toliko smo se smijale,
toliko smo se smijale,
06:05
LT: We laughed, we did,
we laughed so much,
we laughed so much,
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06:07
we found we had so much in common
and we're so different.
and we're so different.
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jer imamo toliko toga zajedničkog,
a tako smo različite.
a tako smo različite.
Ona je poput holivudske kraljevne,
06:10
Here she is, like Hollywood royalty,
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ja sam poput grube klinke iz Detroita,
06:12
I'm like a tough kid from Detroit,
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06:14
[Dolly's] a Southern kid
from a poor town in Tennessee,
from a poor town in Tennessee,
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ona je dijete s juga,
iz siromašnog grada Tennesseeja,
iz siromašnog grada Tennesseeja,
06:18
and we found we were so in sync as women,
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a otkrile smo da smo toliko
međusobno u skladu kao žene
međusobno u skladu kao žene
06:22
and we must have --
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i mora da smo,
06:23
we laughed -- we must have added
at least a decade onto our lifespans.
at least a decade onto our lifespans.
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toliko smo se smijale, da smo si sigurno
međusobno produžile živote za desetljeće.
međusobno produžile živote za desetljeće.
06:29
JF: I think -- we sure
crossed our legs a lot.
crossed our legs a lot.
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JF: Vjerujem, svakako je bilo
mnogo prekriženh nogu.
mnogo prekriženh nogu.
06:32
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:34
If you know what I mean.
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Ako razumijete što želim reći.
06:37
LT: I think we all know what you mean.
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LT: Mislim da svi razumijemo
što želiš reći.
što želiš reći.
06:39
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:41
PM: You're adding decades
to our lives right now.
to our lives right now.
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PM: Upravo sada dodajete
desetljeća našim životima.
desetljeća našim životima.
06:44
So among the books that Jane
sent us both to read on female friendship
sent us both to read on female friendship
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Dakle, među knjigama koje nam je Jane
poslala da čitamo o ženskom prijateljstvu,
poslala da čitamo o ženskom prijateljstvu,
06:49
was one by a woman we admire greatly,
Sister Joan Chittister,
Sister Joan Chittister,
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je knjiga žene kojoj se iznimno divimo,
sestre Joan Chittister,
sestre Joan Chittister,
06:53
who said about female friendship
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koja je za žensko prijateljstvo rekla
06:55
that women friends
are not just a social act,
are not just a social act,
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da prijateljice nisu samo društveni čin,
06:59
they're a spiritual act.
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one su duhovni čin.
07:01
Do you think of your friends as spiritual?
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Razmišljaš li tako
o svojim prijateljicama?
o svojim prijateljicama?
07:03
Do they add something
spiritual to your lives?
spiritual to your lives?
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Donose li dozu duhovnosti u tvoj život?
07:06
LT: Spiritual -- I absolutely think that.
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LT: Duhovno - apsolutno vjerujem u to.
07:10
Because -- especially people
you've known a long time,
you've known a long time,
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Jer, osobito ljudi koje dugo poznajete,
07:13
people you've spent time with --
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s kojima ste provodili vrijeme,
07:14
I can see the spiritual
essence inside them,
essence inside them,
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mogu vidjeti njihovu duhovnu bit,
07:17
the tenderness, the vulnerability.
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nježnost, ranjivost.
07:22
There's actually kind of a love,
an element of love in the relationship.
an element of love in the relationship.
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Zapravo, to je vrsta ljubavi,
element ljubavi u vezi.
element ljubavi u vezi.
07:26
I just see deeply into your soul.
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Jednostavno vidim duboko u tvoju dušu.
07:30
PM: Do you think that, Jane --
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PM: Misliš li, Jane --
07:31
LT: But I have special powers.
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LT: No ja imam supermoći.
07:34
JF: Well, there's all kinds of friends.
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JF: Pa, postoje razne vrste prijatelja.
07:36
There's business friends,
and party friends,
and party friends,
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Poslovni prijatelji
i prijatelji za zabave,
i prijatelji za zabave,
07:38
I've got a lot of those.
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njih imam puno.
07:40
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
07:42
But the oxytocin-producing
friendships have ...
friendships have ...
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No, prijateljstva
koja proizvode oksitocin...
koja proizvode oksitocin...
07:47
They feel spiritual
because it's a heart opening, right?
because it's a heart opening, right?
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Ona imaju nešto duhovno
jer otvaraju dušu, zar ne?
jer otvaraju dušu, zar ne?
07:51
You know, we go deep. And --
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Znate, otvaramo se. I...
07:54
I find that I shed tears a lot
with my intimate friends.
with my intimate friends.
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Otkrila sam da dosta plačem
sa svojim bliskim prijateljicama.
sa svojim bliskim prijateljicama.
08:01
Not because I'm sad but because
I'm so touched and inspired by them.
I'm so touched and inspired by them.
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Ne zato što sam tužna, već zato
što sam dirnuta i inspirirana njima.
što sam dirnuta i inspirirana njima.
08:06
LT: And you know one of you
is going to go soon.
is going to go soon.
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LT: A i znaš da će
jedna od vas uskoro otići.
jedna od vas uskoro otići.
08:09
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:14
PM: Well, two of us are sitting here,
Lily, which one are you talking about?
Lily, which one are you talking about?
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PM: Pa, nas dvije sjedimo ovdje,
Lily, o kojoj pričaš?
Lily, o kojoj pričaš?
08:19
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:20
And I always think, when women
talk about their friendships,
talk about their friendships,
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I uvijek mislim da kad žene
pričaju o svojim prijateljstvima,
pričaju o svojim prijateljstvima,
08:23
that men always look a little mystified.
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da muškarci uvijek izgledaju
pomalo zbunjeno.
pomalo zbunjeno.
08:26
What are the differences, in your opinion,
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Koje su razlike, po tvom mišljenju,
08:29
between men friendships
and women friendships?
and women friendships?
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između muških i ženskih prijateljstava?
08:32
JF: There's a lot of difference,
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JF: Puno je razlika
08:34
and I think we have to have
a lot of empathy for men --
a lot of empathy for men --
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i mislim da moramo imati puno
suosjećanja prema muškarcima --
suosjećanja prema muškarcima --
08:37
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:38
that they don't have what we have.
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jer nemaju to što mi imamo.
08:43
Which I think may be why they die sooner.
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Zbog čega mislim da ranije umiru.
08:45
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:47
I have a lot of compassion for men,
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Suosjećam s muškarcima
08:49
because women, no kidding, we --
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jer žene, ne šalim se, mi --
08:53
women's relationships, our friendships
are full disclosure, we go deep.
are full disclosure, we go deep.
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ženske veze, naša prijateljstva
su potpuno razotkrivanje.
su potpuno razotkrivanje.
08:59
They're revelatory.
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Ona nas otkrivaju.
09:01
We risk vulnerability --
this is something men don't do.
this is something men don't do.
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Mi riskiramo ranjivost,
nešto što muškarci ne rade.
nešto što muškarci ne rade.
09:06
I mean how many times
have I asked you, "Am I doing OK?"
have I asked you, "Am I doing OK?"
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Mislim, koliko puta sam te pitala:
"Kako mi ide?"
"Kako mi ide?"
09:09
"Did I really screw up there?"
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"Jesam li ono stvarno zeznula?"
09:11
PM: You're doing great.
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PM: Odlično ti ide.
09:13
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
09:14
JF: But I mean, we ask questions like that
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JF: Mislim, mi postavljamo takva pitanja
09:17
of our women friends,
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svojim prijateljicama,
09:18
and men don't.
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muškarci ne.
09:20
You know, people describe women's
relationships as face-to-face,
relationships as face-to-face,
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Znate, ženska prijateljstva se opisuju
kao direktna, licem u lice,
kao direktna, licem u lice,
09:24
whereas men's friendships
are more side-by-side.
are more side-by-side.
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dok su muška prijateljstva
više bok uz bok.
više bok uz bok.
09:27
LT: I mean most of the time
men don't want to reveal their emotions,
men don't want to reveal their emotions,
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LT: Mislim, muškarci uglavnom
ne žele otkriti svoje emocije,
ne žele otkriti svoje emocije,
09:31
they want to bury deeper feelings.
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žele zakopati dublje osjećaje.
09:33
I mean, that's the general,
conventional thought.
conventional thought.
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Mislim, to je opća, konvencionalna misao.
09:36
They would rather go off in their man cave
and watch a game or hit golf balls,
and watch a game or hit golf balls,
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Radije bi otišli u svoju mušku pećinu,
gledali utakmicu, udarali loptice za golf,
gledali utakmicu, udarali loptice za golf,
09:40
or talk about sports,
or hunting, or cars or have sex.
or hunting, or cars or have sex.
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pričali o sportu, lovu,
automobilima ili seksu.
automobilima ili seksu.
09:45
I mean, it's just the kind of --
it's a more manly behavior.
it's a more manly behavior.
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Mislim, to je nekako -
to je muževnije ponašanje.
to je muževnije ponašanje.
09:48
JF: You meant --
LT: They talk about sex.
LT: They talk about sex.
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JF: Misliš... Pričaju o seksu.
09:51
I meant they might have sex
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Mislim, mogu dobiti seks
09:52
if they could get somebody
in their man cave to --
in their man cave to --
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ako uspiju dovesti nekoga
u svoju mušku pećinu da -
u svoju mušku pećinu da -
09:55
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
09:58
JF: You know something, though,
that I find very interesting --
that I find very interesting --
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JF: Znate li što mi je ipak
vrlo zanimljivo --
vrlo zanimljivo --
10:01
and again, psychologists didn't know this
until relatively recently --
until relatively recently --
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psiholozi nisu znali za ovo sve donedavno,
10:06
is that men are born every bit
as relational as women are.
as relational as women are.
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da su muškarci rođeni kao potpuno
skloni vezama kao i žene.
skloni vezama kao i žene.
10:09
If you look at films
of newborn baby boys and girls,
of newborn baby boys and girls,
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Ako pogledate snimke
novorođenih dječaka i djevojčica,
novorođenih dječaka i djevojčica,
10:13
you'll see the baby boys
just like the girls,
just like the girls,
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vidjet ćete da dječaci,
baš kao i djevojčice,
baš kao i djevojčice,
10:15
gazing into their mother's eyes,
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gledaju u majčine oči,
10:18
you know, needing that relational
exchange of energy.
exchange of energy.
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znate, potrebna im je ta
međusobna razmjena energije.
međusobna razmjena energije.
10:22
When the mother looks away,
they could see the dismay on the child,
they could see the dismay on the child,
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Kad majka odvrati pogled,
može se vidjeti zaprepaštenje kod djeteta,
može se vidjeti zaprepaštenje kod djeteta,
10:27
even the boy would cry.
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čak bi i dječaci zaplakali.
10:28
They need relationship.
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Potrebna im je veza.
10:30
So the question is why,
as they grow older, does that change?
as they grow older, does that change?
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Stoga je pitanje: zašto se,
kako odrastaju, to mijenja?
kako odrastaju, to mijenja?
10:34
And the answer is patriarchal culture,
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A odgovor je u patrijarhalnoj kulturi,
10:37
which says to boys and young men
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koja govori dječacima i mladim muškarcima
10:40
that to be needing of relationship,
to be emotional with someone is girly.
to be emotional with someone is girly.
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da je potreba za vezom, za razmjenom
osjećaja s nekim, za djevojčice.
osjećaja s nekim, za djevojčice.
10:45
That a real man doesn't ask
directions or express a need,
directions or express a need,
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Da pravi muškarac ne pita za smjer
ili ne izražava potrebe,
ili ne izražava potrebe,
10:51
they don't go to doctors if they feel bad.
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ne ide liječniku kad se osjeća loše.
10:53
They don't ask for help.
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Ne traži pomoć.
10:55
There's a quote that I really like,
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Jako mi se sviđa jedan citat,
"Muškarci se boje da će,
ako postanu 'mi', nestati njihovo 'ja'."
ako postanu 'mi', nestati njihovo 'ja'."
10:56
"Men fear that becoming 'we'
will erase his 'I'."
will erase his 'I'."
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11:01
You know, his sense of self.
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Znate, njihova svijest o sebi.
11:03
Whereas women's sense of self
has always been kind of porous.
has always been kind of porous.
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Dok je svijest o sebi kod žena
oduvijek bila nekako porozna.
oduvijek bila nekako porozna.
11:07
But our "we" is our saving grace,
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No naše "mi" je naš spas,
11:11
it's what makes us strong.
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to nas čini jakima.
11:14
It's not that we're better than men,
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Nije da smo bolje od muškaraca,
nego ne moramo dokazivati
svoju muškost.
svoju muškost.
11:15
we just don't have
our masculinity to prove.
our masculinity to prove.
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11:18
LT: And, well --
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LT: I...
JF: To je citat Glorije Steinem.
11:19
JF: That's a Gloria Steinem quote.
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11:21
So we can express our humanity --
LT: I know who Gloria Steinem is.
LT: I know who Gloria Steinem is.
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Dakle, mi izražavamo svoju ljudskost...
LT: Znam tko je Gloria Steinem.
LT: Znam tko je Gloria Steinem.
JF: Znam da znaš, ali mislim da --
11:24
JF: I know you know who she is,
but I think it's a --
but I think it's a --
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11:27
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
11:29
No, but it's a great quote, I think.
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Smatram da je to sjajan citat.
11:31
We're not better than men, we just
don't have our masculinity to prove.
don't have our masculinity to prove.
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Nije da smo bolje od muškaraca, nego
ne moramo dokazivati svoju muškost.
ne moramo dokazivati svoju muškost.
11:35
And that's really important.
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A to je zaista važno.
11:36
LT: But men are
so inculcated in the culture
so inculcated in the culture
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LT: No muškarci su toliko
stopljeni s kulturom,
stopljeni s kulturom,
11:39
to be comfortable in the patriarchy.
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da im je udobno u patrijarhatu.
11:42
And we've got to make
something different happen.
something different happen.
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A mi moramo nešto promijeniti.
11:45
JF: Women's friendships
are like a renewable source of power.
are like a renewable source of power.
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JF: Ženska prijateljstva
su poput obnovljivih izvora energije.
su poput obnovljivih izvora energije.
11:49
LT: Well, that's what's exciting
about this subject.
about this subject.
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LT: Pa, to je uzbudljivo kod ove teme.
11:52
It's because our friendships --
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Zato što naša prijateljstva,
ženska prijateljstva
su jednostavno skok u sestrinstvo,
su jednostavno skok u sestrinstvo,
11:53
female friendships
are just a hop to our sisterhood,
are just a hop to our sisterhood,
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11:58
and sisterhood can be
a very powerful force,
a very powerful force,
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a sestrinstvo može biti vrlo jaka sila,
12:01
to give the world --
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koja će svijetu dati --
12:03
to make it what it should be --
255
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učiniti ga onim što bi trebao biti,
12:05
the things that humans desperately need.
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ono što ljudima očajnički treba.
12:08
PM: It is why we're talking about it,
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PM: Zato razgovaramo o tome,
12:10
because women's friendships are,
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jer ženska prijateljstva jesu,
12:12
as you said, Jane,
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kao što si rekla, Jane,
12:13
a renewable source of power.
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obnovljivi izvori energije.
12:15
So how do we use that power?
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Pa kako da iskoristimo tu moć?
12:17
JF: Well, women are the fastest growing
demographic in the world,
demographic in the world,
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JF: Žene su najbrže rastuća
populacija na svijetu,
populacija na svijetu,
12:21
especially older women.
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naročito starije žene.
12:22
And if we harness our power,
we can change the world.
we can change the world.
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I ako upregnemo svoju snagu,
možemo promijeniti svijet.
možemo promijeniti svijet.
12:26
And guess what? We need to.
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I znate što? Moramo.
12:28
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
12:30
And we need to do it soon.
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I moramo to što prije.
12:31
And one of the things
that we need to do --
that we need to do --
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A jedna od stvari koje moramo učiniti,
12:34
and we can do it as women --
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a mi to, kao žene, možemo,
12:35
for one thing, we kind of set
the consumer standards.
the consumer standards.
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mi na neki način postavljamo
potrošačke standarde.
potrošačke standarde.
12:38
We need to consume less.
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Moramo smanjiti potrošnju.
12:41
We in the Western world
need to consume less
need to consume less
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Mi u zapadnom svijetu
moramo smanjiti potrošnju,
moramo smanjiti potrošnju,
a kada kupujemo stvari, trebamo
kupovati ono što je proizvedeno lokalno,
kupovati ono što je proizvedeno lokalno,
12:44
and when we buy things, we need to
buy things that are made locally,
buy things that are made locally,
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kada kupujemo hranu, trebamo kupovati
onu koja je uzgajana lokalno.
onu koja je uzgajana lokalno.
12:47
when we buy food, we need to buy food
that's grown locally.
that's grown locally.
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12:50
We are the ones
that need to get off the grid.
that need to get off the grid.
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Mi smo ti koji se moramo maknuti
s energetske mreže.
s energetske mreže.
12:53
We need to make ourselves
independent from fossil fuels.
independent from fossil fuels.
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Moramo prestati ovisiti
o fosilnim gorivima.
o fosilnim gorivima.
12:59
And the fossil fuel companies --
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1976
A kompanije za fosilna goriva,
13:01
the Exxons and the Shell Oils
and those bad guys --
and those bad guys --
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one poput Exxona, Shell Oilsa
i njima sličnih negativaca,
i njima sličnih negativaca,
13:04
cause they are --
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jer oni to jesu,
13:05
are going to tell us that we can't do it
without going back to the Stone Age.
without going back to the Stone Age.
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reći će nam da to ne možemo napraviti
a da se ne vratimo u kameno doba.
a da se ne vratimo u kameno doba.
13:09
You know, that the alternatives
just aren't quite there yet,
just aren't quite there yet,
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Znate, da alternativni izvori
još uvijek nisu dovoljno dobri,
još uvijek nisu dovoljno dobri,
13:12
and that's not true.
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što nije točno.
13:14
There are countries in the world right now
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Danas postoje države u svijetu
13:16
that are living mostly on renewable
energy and doing just fine.
energy and doing just fine.
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koje uglavnom žive na obnovljivoj energiji
i sasvim im je dobro.
i sasvim im je dobro.
13:19
And they tell us that if we do
wean ourselves from fossil fuel
wean ourselves from fossil fuel
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I govore nam da, ako se
odviknemo od fosilnih goriva,
odviknemo od fosilnih goriva,
13:23
that we're going to be
back in the Stone Age,
back in the Stone Age,
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da ćemo se vratiti u kameno doba,
13:25
and in fact, if we begin
to use renewable energy,
to use renewable energy,
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a zapravo, ako počnemo
koristiti obnovljivu energiju,
koristiti obnovljivu energiju,
13:30
and not drill in the Arctic,
and not drill --
and not drill --
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umjesto što bušimo po Arktiku...
13:32
LT: Oh, boy.
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LT: O, bože.
JF: I da ne bušimo
po naftnom pijesku Alberte --
po naftnom pijesku Alberte --
13:33
JF: And not drill
in the Alberta tar sands --
in the Alberta tar sands --
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13:35
Right.
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Tako je.
13:36
That we will be --
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Bit ćemo,
13:38
there will be more democracy
and more jobs and more well-being,
and more jobs and more well-being,
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imat ćemo više demokracije,
više posla i više blagostanja,
više posla i više blagostanja,
13:41
and it's women that are
going to lead the way.
going to lead the way.
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a žene su te koje će to predvoditi.
13:43
LT: Maybe we have the momentum
to start a third-wave feminist movement
to start a third-wave feminist movement
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LT: Možda imamo impuls da započnemo
treći val feminističkog pokreta
treći val feminističkog pokreta
13:48
with our sisterhood around the world,
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s našim sestrinstvima širom svijeta,
13:50
with women we don't see,
women we may never meet,
women we may never meet,
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sa ženama koje ne vidimo,
sa ženama koje možda nikad ne upoznamo,
sa ženama koje možda nikad ne upoznamo,
13:53
but we join together that way,
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ali se na taj način udružimo
13:56
because --
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jer
13:57
Aristotle said --
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Aristotel je rekao,
13:59
most people --
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većina ljudi,
14:01
people would die without male friendships.
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ljudi bi umrli bez muških prijatelja.
14:04
And the operative word here was "male."
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Glavna riječ ovdje je "muških".
14:07
Because they thought that friendships
should be between equals
should be between equals
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Smatrali su da bi prijateljstva
trebala biti među jednakima,
trebala biti među jednakima,
14:10
and women were not considered equal --
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a žene nisu smatrane jednakima...
14:12
JF: They didn't think
we had souls even, the Greeks.
we had souls even, the Greeks.
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JF: Grci čak nisu smatrali
ni da imamo dušu.
ni da imamo dušu.
14:15
LT: No, exactly. That shows you
just how limited Aristotle was.
just how limited Aristotle was.
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LT: Točno. To vam samo pokazuje
koliko je Aristotel bio ograničen.
koliko je Aristotel bio ograničen.
14:18
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
14:21
And wait, no, here's the best part.
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I čekajte, ne, ovo je najbolji dio.
14:23
It's like, you know,
men do need women now.
men do need women now.
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Znate, muškarcima su sada potrebne žene.
14:27
The planet needs women.
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Planet treba žene.
14:29
The US Constitution needs women.
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Ustavu SAD-a su potrebne žene.
14:31
We are not even in the Constitution.
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Mi nismo čak ni u Ustavu.
14:34
JF: You're talking about
the Equal Rights Amendment.
the Equal Rights Amendment.
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JF: Govoriš o Amandmanu
o jednakim pravima.
o jednakim pravima.
LT: Tako je.
JF: Da.
JF: Da.
14:37
LT: Right.
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14:38
Justice Ginsberg said something like --
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Justice Ginsberg nedavno
je rekla nešto u smislu,
je rekla nešto u smislu,
14:43
every constitution that's been written
since the end of World War II
since the end of World War II
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u svaki ustav koji je napisan
od završetka Drugog svjetskog rata
od završetka Drugog svjetskog rata
14:47
included a provision that made women
citizens of equal stature,
citizens of equal stature,
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uvrštena je odredba kojom su žene
proglašene građanima jednakog statusa,
proglašene građanima jednakog statusa,
14:52
but ours does not.
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no u našem nije tako.
14:54
So that would be a good place to start.
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Pa bi bilo dobro početi odatle.
14:56
Very, very mild --
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Vrlo, vrlo blago.
14:58
JF: Right.
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JF: Baš tako.
14:59
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
15:02
And gender equality, it's like a tide,
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A rodna ravnopravnost je poput plime,
15:04
it would lift all boats, not just women.
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podigla bi sve brodove, ne samo žene.
15:06
PM: Needing new role models
on how to do that.
on how to do that.
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PM: Potrebni su nam novi uzori
kako to postići.
kako to postići.
15:09
How to be friends,
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Kako da budemo prijatelji,
15:10
how to think about our power
in different ways,
in different ways,
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kako da razmišljamo o moći drugačije,
15:13
as consumers,
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kao potrošači,
15:15
as citizens of the world,
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kao građani svijeta,
15:16
and this is what makes Jane and Lily
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i zato su Jane i Lily
15:19
a role model of how
women can be friends --
women can be friends --
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uzori za ženska prijateljstva
15:21
for a very long time,
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na duge staze,
15:23
and even if they occasionally disagree.
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čak i kad se povremeno ne slažu.
15:25
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
15:28
Thank you both.
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Hvala objema.
15:29
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
15:30
JF: Thanks.
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JF: Hvala.
15:35
LT: Thank you.
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LT: Hvala.
15:36
JF: Thank you.
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JF: Hvala.
15:38
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Jane Fonda - Actor and activistJane Fonda has had three extraordinary careers (so far): Oscar-winning actor, fitness guru, impassioned activist.
Why you should listen
Jane Fonda is an actor, author, producer and activist supporting environmental issues, peace and female empowerment. She founded the Georgia Campaign for Adolescent Pregnancy Prevention, and established the Jane Fonda Center for Adolescent Reproductive Health at Emory. She cofounded the Women’s Media Center, and sits on the board of V-Day, a global effort to stop violence against women and girls.
Fonda's remarkable screen and stage career includes two Best Actress Oscars, an Emmy, a Tony Award nomination and an Honorary Palme d’Or from the Cannes Film Festival. Offstage, she revolutionized the fitness industry in the 1980s with Jane Fonda’s Workout — the all-time top-grossing home video. She has written a best-selling memoir, My Life So Far, and Prime Time, a comprehensive guide to living life to the fullest.
Jane Fonda | Speaker | TED.com
Lily Tomlin - Comedian and actor
Lily Tomlin has been honored by the Kennedy Center and awarded the Mark Twain Prize -- and she's still making vital, hilarious comedy.
Why you should listen
Throughout her extraordinary career, Lily Tomlin has won seven Emmys; a Tony for her one-woman Broadway show, Appearing Nitely; a second Tony for Best Actress; a Drama Desk Award and an Outer Critics' Circle Award for her one-woman performance in Jane Wagner’s The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe; a Grammy for her comedy album, This Is a Recording; and two Peabody Awards, the first for the ABC television special, Edith Ann’s Christmas: Just Say Noël, and the second for narrating and executive producing the HBO film, The Celluloid Closet. In 2003, she received the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor, and in December 2014 she was the recipient of the prestigious Kennedy Center Honors in Washington DC.
She made her film debut in Robert Altman's Nashville, and gave a generation-defining performance alongside Dolly Parton and Jane Fonda in the workplace revenge comedy 9 to 5.
Lily Tomlin | Speaker | TED.com