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TEDWomen 2015

Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin: A hilarious celebration of lifelong female friendship

珍‧芳達與莉莉‧湯姆琳: 詼諧地向長久的女性友誼乾杯

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傳奇二人組珍‧芳達與莉莉‧湯姆琳是幾十年的老朋友,在一場由帕特‧米謝爾主持的會談中,三個人一針見血但輕鬆、題材廣泛,她們談論了長壽、女性主義、男女之間的差異、女性友誼、活得好的定義與在未來世界女性的角色定位。芳達說:「我根本無法想像沒有我的女性朋友,會是怎麼樣。我有女性朋友,故我在」。

- Actor and activist
Jane Fonda has had three extraordinary careers (so far): Oscar-winning actor, fitness guru, impassioned activist. Full bio

- Comedian and actor
Lily Tomlin has been honored by the Kennedy Center and awarded the Mark Twain Prize -- and she's still making vital, hilarious comedy. Full bio

帕特·米歇爾(PM):
我最近一直在思索女性友誼
00:12
Pat Mitchell米切爾: So I was thinking思維
about female friendship友誼 a lot,
對了,我很榮幸向大家介紹
00:15
and by the way, these two women婦女,
這兩位女士
00:18
I'm very honored榮幸 to say,
是認識非常久的老朋友
00:19
have been my friends朋友
for a very long time, too.
珍‧芳達(JF):的確
00:22
Jane Fonda方達: Yes we have.
PM:我曾讀過賽凡提斯講述
有關女性友誼的話
00:23
PM下午: And one of the things
that I read about female friendship友誼
00:27
is something that Cervantes塞萬提斯 said.
他說
00:28
He said, "You can tell
a lot about someone有人,"
從一個人的朋友群
這裡我們是指女生
00:32
in this case案件 a woman女人,
就可以看得出那人的修養
00:33
"by the company公司 that she keeps保持."
那我們來開始
00:35
So let's start開始 with --
(笑聲)
00:37
(Laughter笑聲)
JF:我們有大麻煩了
00:40
JFJF: We're in big trouble麻煩.
莉莉‧湯姆琳(LT):水遞過來,我很渴
00:41
Lily百合 Tomlin湯姆林: Hand me one of those waters水域,
00:43
I'm extremely非常 dry.
00:45
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
JF:妳在佔用我們的時間
00:53
JFJF: You're taking服用 up our time.
我們只有非常有限...
00:55
We have a very limited有限 --
LT:單單跟她在一起
就快榨光我的命了
00:56
LTLT: Just being存在 with her
sucks the life out of me.
(笑聲)
00:59
(Laughter笑聲)
JF:妳還沒看到更厲害的呢!
01:02
JFJF: You ain't seen看到 nothing yet然而.
好啦總之對不起
01:03
Anyway無論如何 -- sorry.
PM:告訴我,妳在朋友身上尋求什麼
01:05
PM下午: So tell me, what do you
look for in a friend朋友?
LT:我尋找有幽默感、勇於創新
01:09
LTLT: I look for someone有人
who has a sense of fun開玩笑,
01:12
who's誰是 audacious膽大,
樂於助人、有政治觀
01:15
who's誰是 forthcoming即將到來, who has politics政治,
甚至有點熱愛地球
01:18
who has even a small scrap廢料
of passion for the planet行星,
01:23
someone有人 who's誰是 decent正經,
has a sense of justice正義
舉止得體、有正義感
並看重我的人
01:26
and who thinks I'm worthwhile合算.
(笑聲)
01:28
(Laughter笑聲)
(鼓掌)
01:30
(Applause掌聲)
JF:今早我在想
01:34
JFJF: You know, I was thinking思維 this morning早上,
我根本無法想像
沒有我的女性朋友會怎樣
01:36
I don't even know what I would do
without my women婦女 friends朋友.
我的意思是說
01:39
I mean it's, "I have my friends朋友,
therefore因此 I am."
我有朋友,故我在
LT:(笑聲)
01:42
LTLT: (Laughter笑聲)
JF:真的,沒騙妳
01:43
JFJF: No, it's true真正.
我因我的女性朋友們而存在
01:45
I exist存在 because I have
my women婦女 friends朋友. They --
妳也是其中之一
01:48
You're one of them.
至於妳這朋友,我就不知道了,反正...
01:49
I don't know about you. But anyway無論如何 --
(笑聲)
01:51
(Laughter笑聲)
她們使我更堅強、更聰明、更勇敢
01:52
You know, they make me stronger,
they make me smarter聰明,
01:55
they make me braver勇敢.
當我需要指正時
她們會來拍拍我肩膀
01:56
They tap龍頭 me on the shoulder when I might威力
be in need of course-correcting當然,修正.
而且大多都比我年輕很多
02:01
And most of them are
a good deal合同 younger更年輕 than me, too.
我是說,其實這滿不賴的
LT:真是謝囉
02:04
You know? I mean, it's nice不錯 --
LTLT: Thank you.
(笑聲)
02:06
(Laughter笑聲)
JF:我是認真的
我把妳歸在那類是因為
02:09
JFJF: No, I do, I include包括 you in that,
because listen, you know --
在邁向人生終點的旅途
02:12
it's nice不錯 to have somebody still around
to play with and learn學習 from
仍有人可以陪妳玩,讓妳學習是很棒的
02:15
when you're getting得到 toward the end結束.
我越來越靠近死亡
我會比妳早抵達的
02:17
I'm approaching接近 --
I'll be there sooner than you.
LT:不,我很高興有妳陪我一起老去
02:19
LTLT: No, I'm glad高興 to have you
parallel平行 aging老化 alongside並肩 me.
02:22
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
JF:我在幫妳帶路呢
02:24
JFJF: I'm showing展示 you the way.
(笑聲)
02:26
(Laughter笑聲)
02:27
LTLT: Well, you are and you have.
LT:妳一直以來都是
02:29
PM下午: Well, as we grow增長 older舊的,
PM:隨著我們年齡增長
02:30
and as we go through通過
different不同 kinds of life's人生 journeys旅程,
我們走過不同人生旅途
02:33
what do you do to keep
your friendships友誼 vital重要 and alive?
妳們是如何維持友誼的
02:38
LTLT: Well you have to use a lot of --
LT:妳必須用很多...
JF:對了。她不常邀我去她家
02:39
JFJF: She doesn't invite邀請 me over much,
I'll tell you that.
LT:我需要用很多社群媒體
02:42
LTLT: I have to use a lot of social社會 media媒體 --
妳給我閉嘴,然後...
02:44
You be quiet安靜 now. And so --
(笑聲)
02:46
(Laughter笑聲)
02:48
LTLT: And I look through通過 my emails電子郵件,
I look through通過 my texts文本
LT:我看過每一封電郵、簡訊
02:51
to find my friends朋友,
來找到朋友以便可以盡快回覆他們
02:52
so I can answer回答 them
as quickly很快 as possible可能,
因為我知道他們需要我的忠告
02:54
because I know they need my counsel法律顧問.
(笑聲)
02:57
(Laughter笑聲)
03:00
They need my support支持,
他們需要我的支持
03:01
because most of my friends朋友
are writers作家, or activists活動家, or actors演員,
因為我的朋友大多都是
作家、社運領導人或演員
03:04
and you're all three ...
而妳三者兼具
03:05
and a long string
of other descriptive描述的 phrases短語,
外加一長串描述性字句
我希望我可以盡快與妳聯繫上
03:09
and I want to get to you
as soon不久 as possible可能,
03:13
I want you to know that I'm there for you.
我想讓妳知道我與妳同在
JF:妳玩表情符號嗎
03:15
JFJF: Do you do emojis表情符號?
LT:呃
JF:沒有嗎
03:17
LTLT: Oh ...
JFJF: No?
LT:這有點尷尬
JF:我超愛表情符號的
03:19
LTLT: That's embarrassing尷尬.
JFJF: I'm really into emojis表情符號.
LT:不,我都會拼出我的
03:21
LTLT: No, I spell拼寫 out my --
我拼出我的快樂、恭喜與悲傷
03:23
I spell拼寫 out my words of happiness幸福
and congratulations祝賀,
03:27
and sadness.
JF:妳把它們全都拼出來
03:29
JFJF: You spell拼寫 it right out --
LT:我拼出每一個字母
03:30
LTLT: I spell拼寫 it, every一切 letter.
(笑聲)
03:32
(Laughter笑聲)
03:33
JFJF: Such這樣 a purist純粹的.
JF:真是有夠龜毛
03:35
You know, as I've gotten得到 older舊的,
當我越來越老時
03:37
I've understood了解 more
the importance重要性 of friendships友誼,
我越來越理解友誼的重要性
03:40
and so, I really make an effort功夫
也因此我花了很多精力
03:42
to reach達到 out and make play dates日期 --
not let too much time go by.
找朋友玩,安排派對
不讓太多時間白白流逝
我讀很多書
03:46
I read a lot
因此如同莉莉所知
03:48
so, as Lily百合 knows知道 all too well,
我會把喜歡的書寄給我朋友
03:50
my books圖書 that I like,
I send發送 to my friends朋友.
LT:當我們知道今天要來這裡時
03:52
LTLT: When we knew知道 we would be here today今天
妳寄給我一大堆有關
女人跟女性友誼的書
03:54
you sent發送 me a lot of books圖書
about women婦女, female friendships友誼,
我很訝異看到最近
03:56
and I was so surprised詫異
to see how many許多 books圖書,
竟有出版那麼多的書跟研究
04:00
how much research研究
has been doneDONE recently最近 --
JF:妳有很感激嗎
LT:有喔
04:02
JFJF: And were you grateful感激?
LTLT: I was grateful感激.
(笑聲)
04:05
(Laughter笑聲)
04:10
PM下午: And --
PM:那麼
LT:等等,這很重要因為這是另一個
04:11
LTLT: Wait, no, it's really important重要
because this is another另一個 example
有關女人是如何被忽略
擱在一邊、邊緣化的例子
04:14
of how women婦女 are overlooked忽視,
put aside在旁邊, marginalized邊緣化.
04:18
There's been very little
research研究 doneDONE on us,
很少有關我們的研究
04:21
even though雖然 we volunteered自告奮勇 lots of times.
儘管我們多次自願
04:23
JFJF: That's for sure.
JF:沒錯
04:24
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
LT:這個滿有趣的
你們都會對這感興趣的
04:26
LTLT: This is really exciting扣人心弦,
and you all will be interested有興趣 in this.
哈佛醫學院的研究指出
04:30
The Harvard哈佛 Medical School學校 study研究 has shown顯示
04:32
that women婦女 who have
close female friendships友誼
維持親密女性友誼的女人
04:37
are less likely容易 to develop發展 impairments障礙 --
身體比較不容易衰退
隨著年紀身體的衰退
04:40
physical物理 impairments障礙 as they age年齡,
04:42
and they are likely容易 to be seen看到
to be living活的 much more vital重要, exciting扣人心弦 --
她們也較容易過更有活力精彩
04:48
JFJF: And longer --
JF:還有更長
LT:快樂的人生
04:49
LTLT: Joyful快樂 lives生活.
JF:我們平均比男生多活五年
04:50
JFJF: We live生活 five years年份 longer than men男人.
LT:我想我甘願短命一點換取快樂晚年
04:52
LTLT: I think I'd trade貿易 the years年份 for joy喜悅.
(笑聲)
04:54
(Laughter笑聲)
LT:但最重要的是他們發現
04:58
LTLT: But the most important重要
part部分 is they found發現 --
05:01
the results結果 were so exciting扣人心弦
and so conclusive確鑿 --
這些結果十分振奮人心而確切
05:04
the researchers研究人員 found發現
研究指出
05:06
that not having close female friends朋友
is detrimental有害 to your health健康,
沒有女性摯友對身體健康有害
05:12
as much as smoking抽煙 or being存在 overweight超重.
與抽菸或過重有同等效果
05:15
JFJF: And there's something else其他, too --
JF:當然還有其他結論
LT:反正我把我的部分講完了
05:17
LTLT: I've said my part部分, so ...
(笑聲)
05:18
(Laughter笑聲)
JF:好,那現在聽我的部分
05:19
JFJF: OK, well, listen to my part部分,
because there's an additional額外 thing.
因為還有一件事情
這幾十年當他們嘗試理解壓力時
05:23
Because they only --
for years年份, decades幾十年 --
05:25
they only researched研究 men男人 when they
were trying to understand理解 stress強調,
他們只研究男生
直到最近他們才研究
女生面對壓力時的狀況
05:30
only very recently最近 have they researched研究
what happens發生 to women婦女 when we're stressed強調,
結論是當我們有壓力時
05:34
and it turns out
that when we're stressed強調 -- women婦女,
我們身體會分泌大量催產素
05:38
our bodies身體 get flooded by oxytocin催產素.
一個讓妳感覺良好
平靜、舒壓的賀爾蒙
05:42
Which哪一個 is a feel-good感覺不錯, calming平靜,
stress-reducing應力緩和 hormone激素.
當我們跟女性朋友在一起時
它的濃度也會上升
05:45
Which哪一個 is also increased增加
when we're with our women婦女 friends朋友.
而我確信它是其中一個
讓我們活得比較久的理由
05:50
And I do think that's one reason原因
why we live生活 longer.
而我由衷對男生感到抱歉
因為他們沒有
05:54
And I feel so bad for men男人
because they don't have that.
05:56
Testosterone睾酮 in men男人
diminishes減少 the effects效果 of oxytocin催產素.
男生體內的睪固酮
會降低催產素的效果
LT:當妳跟我還有桃莉
一起拍攝喜劇《朝九晚五》時
06:01
LTLT: Well, when you and I
and Dolly玩具娃娃 made製作 "9 to 5" ...
JF:噢
06:04
JFJF: Oh --
LT:我們一直笑個不停
06:05
LTLT: We laughed笑了, we did,
we laughed笑了 so much,
我們發現我們有許多共同點
但我們也是如此不同
06:07
we found發現 we had so much in common共同
and we're so different不同.
她就像好萊塢貴族
06:10
Here she is, like Hollywood好萊塢 royalty王權,
我就像來自底特律的頑強孩子
06:12
I'm like a tough強硬 kid孩子 from Detroit底特律,
(桃莉)是來自田納西
貧窮小鎮的南方小孩
06:14
[Dolly'sDolly的] a Southern南部的 kid孩子
from a poor較差的 town in Tennessee田納西,
我們發現身為女人
我們在一起是多麼和諧
06:18
and we found發現 we were so in sync同步 as women婦女,
而我們大笑的程度一定有
至少幫自己延長十年的壽命
06:22
and we must必須 have --
06:23
we laughed笑了 -- we must必須 have added添加
at least最小 a decade onto our lifespans壽命.
06:29
JFJF: I think -- we sure
crossed越過 our legs a lot.
JF:我們倒是很常翹腳
06:32
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
06:34
If you know what I mean.
如果妳知道我在說什麼
06:37
LTLT: I think we all know what you mean.
LT:我想我們都知道妳在說什麼
06:39
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
06:41
PM下午: You're adding加入 decades幾十年
to our lives生活 right now.
PM:妳們正在幫我們延長幾十年壽命
因此在珍送我們
眾多有關女性友誼的書中
06:44
So among其中 the books圖書 that Jane
sent發送 us both to read on female friendship友誼
有一本作者是我們十分景仰的
Sister Joan Chittister
06:49
was one by a woman女人 we admire欣賞 greatly非常,
Sister妹妹 Joan ChittisterChittister,
她說過有關女性友誼的話
06:53
who said about female friendship友誼
06:55
that women婦女 friends朋友
are not just a social社會 act法案,
女性朋友不單只是社交性的
她也是精神性的
06:59
they're a spiritual精神 act法案.
07:01
Do you think of your friends朋友 as spiritual精神?
妳覺得妳的朋友是精神上的益友嗎
07:03
Do they add something
spiritual精神 to your lives生活?
他們有帶給妳人生精神上的影響嗎
07:06
LTLT: Spiritual精神 -- I absolutely絕對 think that.
LT:精神上嘛,我確信是如此
特別是一個你認識很久
07:10
Because -- especially特別 people
you've known已知 a long time,
07:13
people you've spent花費 time with --
你花很多時間相處的人
我可以從他們身上看到精神上的元素
07:14
I can see the spiritual精神
essence本質 inside them,
07:17
the tenderness壓痛, the vulnerability漏洞.
柔和、脆弱
07:22
There's actually其實 kind of a love,
an element元件 of love in the relationship關係.
實際上在這關係裡有一種愛的成分
我只是深深地看透朋友的心靈罷了
07:26
I just see deeply into your soul靈魂.
07:30
PM下午: Do you think that, Jane --
PM:妳認同嗎,珍?
LT:但我有超能力
07:31
LTLT: But I have special特別 powers權力.
07:34
JFJF: Well, there's all kinds of friends朋友.
JF:朋友各式各樣
有生意上的朋友和派對朋友
07:36
There's business商業 friends朋友,
and party派對 friends朋友,
07:38
I've got a lot of those.
這類型的我有很多
07:40
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
07:42
But the oxytocin-producing催產素生產
friendships友誼 have ...
但是讓催產素分泌的友誼
這種友誼是精神上的
因為讓人敞開心房,對吧?
07:47
They feel spiritual精神
because it's a heart opening開盤, right?
我們很深入了解彼此,然後
07:51
You know, we go deep. And --
我發現與閨密在一起時,經常掉眼淚
07:54
I find that I shed tears眼淚 a lot
with my intimate親密 friends朋友.
08:01
Not because I'm sad傷心 but because
I'm so touched感動 and inspired啟發 by them.
不是因為我傷心
而是因為我被他們感動和啟發
08:06
LTLT: And you know one of you
is going to go soon不久.
LT:而且妳知道其中有個人就快要走了
08:09
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
08:14
PM下午: Well, two of us are sitting坐在 here,
Lily百合, which哪一個 one are you talking about?
PM:莉莉,我們兩個人都坐在這裡
妳是說誰啊
08:19
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
08:20
And I always think, when women婦女
talk about their friendships友誼,
而且我覺得當女人談友誼時
08:23
that men男人 always look a little mystified迷惑.
男人總是有點不解
08:26
What are the differences分歧, in your opinion意見,
在妳的認知裡
08:29
between之間 men男人 friendships友誼
and women婦女 friendships友誼?
到底男性友誼跟女性友誼有何差別
JF:這有很多差別啊
08:32
JFJF: There's a lot of difference區別,
08:34
and I think we have to have
a lot of empathy同情 for men男人 --
我想我們對男人需要很多同理心
08:37
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
08:38
that they don't have what we have.
因為他們沒有我們所擁有的
我想這也是為什麼他們比較早死吧
08:43
Which哪一個 I think may可能 be why they die sooner.
08:45
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
08:47
I have a lot of compassion同情 for men男人,
我對男人深感同情
因為女人,我沒有在開玩笑
08:49
because women婦女, no kidding開玩笑, we --
我們女性友誼是不隱藏、深入
08:53
women's女士的 relationships關係, our friendships友誼
are full充分 disclosure洩露, we go deep.
是坦承一切的
08:59
They're revelatory啟示的.
我們冒著自身的脆弱
而這是男人不會做的
09:01
We risk風險 vulnerability漏洞 --
this is something men男人 don't do.
像是,我多次問妳
妳覺得我怎樣
09:06
I mean how many許多 times
have I asked you, "Am I doing OK?"
09:09
"Did I really screw up there?"
我真的把一切搞砸了嗎
09:11
PM下午: You're doing great.
PM:妳做的很棒
09:13
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
09:14
JFJF: But I mean, we ask questions問題 like that
JF:我想表達的是
我們會問女性朋友這種問題
09:17
of our women婦女 friends朋友,
但男人不會
09:18
and men男人 don't.
09:20
You know, people describe描述 women's女士的
relationships關係 as face-to-face面對面,
人們常把女性關係描述成面對面
但把男性關係描述成肩並肩
09:24
whereas men's男裝 friendships友誼
are more side-by-side並排側.
LT:我是覺得多數時間男生不願意表露情感
09:27
LTLT: I mean most of the time
men男人 don't want to reveal揭示 their emotions情緒,
他們寧可把更深層的感覺隱藏起來
09:31
they want to bury埋葬 deeper更深 feelings情懷.
09:33
I mean, that's the general一般,
conventional常規 thought.
我想大致上那是傳統的認知吧
09:36
They would rather go off in their man cave洞穴
and watch a game遊戲 or hit擊中 golf高爾夫球 balls,
他們寧可躲進男人窩裡面
看場比賽打打高爾夫球
或談談運動、打獵、汽車或做愛
09:40
or talk about sports體育,
or hunting狩獵, or cars汽車 or have sex性別.
我是說這是種比較男人的行為
09:45
I mean, it's just the kind of --
it's a more manly男子氣 behavior行為.
JF:妳說...
LT:他們談論性吧
09:48
JFJF: You meant意味著 --
LTLT: They talk about sex性別.
09:51
I meant意味著 they might威力 have sex性別
我是說他們可以做愛
09:52
if they could get somebody
in their man cave洞穴 to --
如果他們把人帶進男人窩裡的話
09:55
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
JF:我發現有件事很有趣
09:58
JFJF: You know something, though雖然,
that I find very interesting有趣 --
再一次地,心理學家是最近才發現的
10:01
and again, psychologists心理學家 didn't know this
until直到 relatively相對 recently最近 --
男生與女生出生時
是有相同的情感取向的
10:06
is that men男人 are born天生 every一切 bit
as relational相關的 as women婦女 are.
如果你看新生男孩、女孩的影片
10:09
If you look at films影片
of newborn新生 baby寶寶 boys男孩 and girls女孩,
10:13
you'll你會 see the baby寶寶 boys男孩
just like the girls女孩,
你會發現其實男孩跟女孩一樣
會凝視媽媽的眼睛
10:15
gazing凝視 into their mother's母親 eyes眼睛,
你知道的,他們需要情感上的的能量交換
10:18
you know, needing需要 that relational相關的
exchange交換 of energy能源.
10:22
When the mother母親 looks容貌 away,
they could see the dismay沮喪 on the child兒童,
當媽媽望向其他地方時
他們可以看到寶寶臉上的沮喪
10:27
even the boy男孩 would cry.
男生甚至會哭
10:28
They need relationship關係.
他們需要情感
10:30
So the question is why,
as they grow增長 older舊的, does that change更改?
所以問題是
為什麼長大後這個取向變了
10:34
And the answer回答 is patriarchal重男輕女 culture文化,
答案是父權文化的關係
需要情感或感性的男孩與年輕男性
10:37
which哪一個 says to boys男孩 and young年輕 men男人
10:40
that to be needing需要 of relationship關係,
to be emotional情緒化 with someone有人 is girly少女的.
是很女孩子氣的
真正的男人不需要
詢問方向或表示需求
10:45
That a real真實 man doesn't ask
directions方向 or express表現 a need,
當他們生病時不會去看醫生
10:51
they don't go to doctors醫生 if they feel bad.
他們不求救
10:53
They don't ask for help.
10:55
There's a quote引用 that I really like,
有一句引言我很喜歡
男人畏懼成為「我們」
會使他的「我」消失
10:56
"Men男人 fear恐懼 that becoming變得 'we''我們'
will erase抹去 his 'I''一世'."
其實就是他的自我感
11:01
You know, his sense of self.
相反地,女人的自我感是圓融的
11:03
Whereas women's女士的 sense of self
has always been kind of porous多孔.
11:07
But our "we" is our saving保存 grace恩典,
我們的「我們」
是我們保有的精神力量
11:11
it's what makes品牌 us strong強大.
是讓我們強壯的
11:14
It's not that we're better than men男人,
不是說我們比男人好
我們僅僅是不需要
證明自己的陽剛罷了
11:15
we just don't have
our masculinity陽剛之氣 to prove證明.
LT:還有
11:18
LTLT: And, well --
JF:那是一句來自 Gloria Steinem 的引言
11:19
JFJF: That's a Gloria格洛麗亞 Steinem斯泰納姆 quote引用.
所以我們可以表現我們的人性
LT:我知道 Gloris Steinem 是誰
11:21
So we can express表現 our humanity人性 --
LTLT: I know who Gloria格洛麗亞 Steinem斯泰納姆 is.
JF:我知道妳知道她是誰,但我覺得...
11:24
JFJF: I know you know who she is,
but I think it's a --
(笑聲)
11:27
(Laughter笑聲)
11:29
No, but it's a great quote引用, I think.
但我想這是句好引言對吧
不是說我們比男人好
11:31
We're not better than men男人, we just
don't have our masculinity陽剛之氣 to prove證明.
我們僅僅是不需要
證明自己的陽剛罷了
這很重要
11:35
And that's really important重要.
LT:但在這文化中男人一直被灌輸
11:36
LTLT: But men男人 are
so inculcated灌輸 in the culture文化
11:39
to be comfortable自在 in the patriarchy父權制.
在父權制度下感到舒適
11:42
And we've我們已經 got to make
something different不同 happen發生.
我們必須做出改變
JF:女性友誼則像一股
永不止歇的力量來源
11:45
JFJF: Women's女士的 friendships友誼
are like a renewable可再生 source資源 of power功率.
LT:這正是這話題振奮人心之處
11:49
LTLT: Well, that's what's exciting扣人心弦
about this subject學科.
因為我們的友誼
11:52
It's because our friendships友誼 --
女性友誼正是「姊妹淘」的跳板
11:53
female friendships友誼
are just a hop to our sisterhood姐妹,
11:58
and sisterhood姐妹 can be
a very powerful強大 force,
而姊妹淘是非常強而有力的
可以讓世界有模有樣
12:01
to give the world世界 --
12:03
to make it what it should be --
12:05
the things that humans人類 desperately拼命 need.
給人們迫切需要的東西
12:08
PM下午: It is why we're talking about it,
PM:這正是為何我們談論它
因為女性友誼是
12:10
because women's女士的 friendships友誼 are,
如同妳說的,珍
12:12
as you said, Jane,
是永不止歇的力量泉源
12:13
a renewable可再生 source資源 of power功率.
那我們該如何使用這股力量呢
12:15
So how do we use that power功率?
12:17
JFJF: Well, women婦女 are the fastest最快的 growing生長
demographic人口 in the world世界,
JF:女性是世界是上成長最快的人口
特別是年長女性
12:21
especially特別 older舊的 women婦女.
12:22
And if we harness馬俱 our power功率,
we can change更改 the world世界.
如果我們使用這股力量
我們可以改變世界
而且我們必須如此
12:26
And guess猜測 what? We need to.
12:28
(Applause掌聲)
(鼓掌)
我們必須盡快這麼做
12:30
And we need to do it soon不久.
12:31
And one of the things
that we need to do --
其中一件我們該做的事情
我們能以女性身分來達成
12:34
and we can do it as women婦女 --
12:35
for one thing, we kind of set
the consumer消費者 standards標準.
是我們似乎設定某種消費標準
12:38
We need to consume消耗 less.
我們必須消費較少
12:41
We in the Western西 world世界
need to consume消耗 less
在西方世界裡,我們必須消費較少
12:44
and when we buy購買 things, we need to
buy購買 things that are made製作 locally本地,
當我們買東西時,我們必須買本地貨品
當我們買食物時,
必須買當地生產的食物
12:47
when we buy購買 food餐飲, we need to buy購買 food餐飲
that's grown長大的 locally本地.
我們必須不依靠電力公司
12:50
We are the ones那些
that need to get off the grid.
我們必須不依靠化石燃料
12:53
We need to make ourselves我們自己
independent獨立 from fossil化石 fuels燃料.
12:59
And the fossil化石 fuel汽油 companies公司 --
而化石燃料公司
13:01
the Exxons埃克森 and the Shell貝殼 Oils
and those bad guys --
Exxon 與 Shell Oils 和那些壞人
他們真的是壞人
13:04
cause原因 they are --
會告訴如果不回到石器時代
我們根本辦不到這些
13:05
are going to tell us that we can't do it
without going back to the Stone Age年齡.
替代方案還沒出現
13:09
You know, that the alternatives備擇方案
just aren't quite相當 there yet然而,
但那不是事實
13:12
and that's not true真正.
13:14
There are countries國家 in the world世界 right now
已經有國家主要靠再生能源
而且過得不錯
13:16
that are living活的 mostly大多 on renewable可再生
energy能源 and doing just fine.
13:19
And they tell us that if we do
wean斷奶 ourselves我們自己 from fossil化石 fuel汽油
而他們說,如果我們捨棄化石燃料
13:23
that we're going to be
back in the Stone Age年齡,
我們將會回到原始石器時代
事實是如果我們開始使用再生能源
13:25
and in fact事實, if we begin開始
to use renewable可再生 energy能源,
不要在北極採油
13:30
and not drill鑽頭 in the Arctic北極,
and not drill鑽頭 --
LT:噢,天哪
13:32
LTLT: Oh, boy男孩.
JF:不要在亞伯特焦油層採油
13:33
JFJF: And not drill鑽頭
in the Alberta阿爾伯塔 tar柏油 sands沙灘 --
13:35
Right.
那麼我們將會有
13:36
That we will be --
13:38
there will be more democracy民主
and more jobs工作 and more well-being福利,
更多的民主平等、工作與福利
13:41
and it's women婦女 that are
going to lead the way.
而正是女性會領導這條路
LT:或許我們有動力
來推行第三波女性主義運動
13:43
LTLT: Maybe we have the momentum動量
to start開始 a third-wave第三波 feminist女權主義者 movement運動
與我們在全世界的姐妹
13:48
with our sisterhood姐妹 around the world世界,
與我們見不到、從未謀面的女性
13:50
with women婦女 we don't see,
women婦女 we may可能 never meet遇到,
我們是這樣團結在一起的
13:53
but we join加入 together一起 that way,
因為亞里士多德曾說
13:56
because --
13:57
Aristotle亞里士多德 said --
13:59
most people --
多數人還沒有男性友誼就死去
14:01
people would die without male friendships友誼.
這裡特別強調「男性」
14:04
And the operative手術 word here was "male."
是因為他們認為友誼是對等的
14:07
Because they thought that friendships友誼
should be between之間 equals等於
14:10
and women婦女 were not considered考慮 equal等於 --
而女性不被視為地位平等的
JF:希臘人甚至不認為我們有靈魂呢
14:12
JFJF: They didn't think
we had souls靈魂 even, the Greeks希臘人.
LT:沒錯,這告訴我們
亞里士多德是多麼視野狹窄
14:15
LTLT: No, exactly究竟. That shows節目 you
just how limited有限 Aristotle亞里士多德 was.
14:18
(Laughter笑聲)
(笑聲)
14:21
And wait, no, here's這裡的 the best最好 part部分.
等等,這是最棒的部分
男生的確需要女生
14:23
It's like, you know,
men男人 do need women婦女 now.
這星球需要女生
14:27
The planet行星 needs需求 women婦女.
14:29
The US Constitution憲法 needs需求 women婦女.
美國憲法需要女生
14:31
We are not even in the Constitution憲法.
我們卻沒有在憲法裡面
JF:妳是在說男女平權修正案吧
14:34
JFJF: You're talking about
the Equal等於 Rights Amendment修訂.
LT:沒錯
14:37
LTLT: Right.
金斯伯格大法官曾說過一句話類似
14:38
Justice正義 Ginsberg金斯伯格 said something like --
所有在二戰後制定的憲法
14:43
every一切 constitution憲法 that's been written書面
since以來 the end結束 of World世界 War戰爭 IIII
都包括使女性地位平等的條文
14:47
included包括 a provision規定 that made製作 women婦女
citizens公民 of equal等於 stature身材,
但我們的沒有
14:52
but ours我們的 does not.
14:54
So that would be a good place地點 to start開始.
所以這是一個很好的出發點
非常非常粗淺
14:56
Very, very mild溫和 --
14:58
JFJF: Right.
JF:沒錯
14:59
(Applause掌聲)
(鼓掌)
15:02
And gender性別 equality平等, it's like a tide浪潮,
而且啊,性別平等就像水漲船高
15:04
it would lift電梯 all boats, not just women婦女.
一人得道雞犬升天,不只是女性而已
15:06
PM下午: Needing孤男寡女 new role角色 models楷模
on how to do that.
PM:我們需要新的模範指示方向
15:09
How to be friends朋友,
如何當朋友
如何以不同角度思考我們的力量
15:10
how to think about our power功率
in different不同 ways方法,
15:13
as consumers消費者,
消費者的角度
15:15
as citizens公民 of the world世界,
世界公民的角度
15:16
and this is what makes品牌 Jane and Lily百合
這也是為何珍和莉莉
是女性如何當朋友的典範
15:19
a role角色 model模型 of how
women婦女 can be friends朋友 --
當長久的朋友
15:21
for a very long time,
15:23
and even if they occasionally偶爾 disagree不同意.
即使她們有時意見不合
15:25
Thank you.
謝謝
15:28
Thank you both.
謝謝兩位
15:29
(Applause掌聲)
(鼓掌)
JF:謝謝
15:30
JFJF: Thanks謝謝.
15:35
LTLT: Thank you.
LT:謝謝
15:36
JFJF: Thank you.
JF:謝謝
(鼓掌)
15:38
(Applause掌聲)
Translated by Christian Grey
Reviewed by David Gui

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About the speakers:

Jane Fonda - Actor and activist
Jane Fonda has had three extraordinary careers (so far): Oscar-winning actor, fitness guru, impassioned activist.

Why you should listen

Jane Fonda is an actor, author, producer and activist supporting environmental issues, peace and female empowerment. She founded the Georgia Campaign for Adolescent Pregnancy Prevention, and established the Jane Fonda Center for Adolescent Reproductive Health at  Emory. She cofounded the Women’s Media Center, and sits on the board of V-Day, a global effort to stop violence against women and girls.

Fonda's remarkable screen and stage career includes two Best Actress Oscars, an Emmy, a Tony Award nomination and an Honorary Palme d’Or from the Cannes Film Festival. Offstage, she revolutionized the fitness industry in the 1980s with Jane Fonda’s Workout — the all-time top-grossing home video. She has written a best-selling memoir, My Life So Far, and Prime Time, a comprehensive guide to living life to the fullest.

More profile about the speaker
Jane Fonda | Speaker | TED.com
Lily Tomlin - Comedian and actor
Lily Tomlin has been honored by the Kennedy Center and awarded the Mark Twain Prize -- and she's still making vital, hilarious comedy.

Why you should listen

Throughout her extraordinary career, Lily Tomlin has won seven Emmys; a Tony for her one-woman Broadway show, Appearing Nitely; a second Tony for Best Actress; a Drama Desk Award and an Outer Critics' Circle Award for her one-woman performance in Jane Wagner’s The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe; a Grammy for her comedy album, This Is a Recording; and two Peabody Awards, the first for the ABC television special, Edith Ann’s Christmas: Just Say Noël, and the second for narrating and executive producing the HBO film, The Celluloid Closet. In 2003, she received the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor, and in December 2014 she was the recipient of the prestigious Kennedy Center Honors in Washington DC.

She made her film debut in Robert Altman's Nashville, and gave a generation-defining performance alongside Dolly Parton and Jane Fonda in the workplace revenge comedy 9 to 5.

More profile about the speaker
Lily Tomlin | Speaker | TED.com