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TEDWomen 2015

Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin: A hilarious celebration of lifelong female friendship

简.方达和莉莉.托姆琳: 闺蜜万岁

Filmed:
2,712,029 views

传奇般的两位——简.方达和莉莉.托姆琳已经是几十年的老朋友了。在这个由帕特.米歇尔主持的、亲切而又范围广泛的现场访谈中,她们三位讨论了长寿、女性友情和男女性友情之间的差别,如何能够开心地生活,以及未来在地球上女性的角色。“如果没有女性朋友,我甚至不知道要做什么,”方达说,“是我的女性朋友们造就了我。”

- Actor and activist
Jane Fonda has had three extraordinary careers (so far): Oscar-winning actor, fitness guru, impassioned activist. Full bio

- Comedian and actor
Lily Tomlin has been honored by the Kennedy Center and awarded the Mark Twain Prize -- and she's still making vital, hilarious comedy. Full bio

帕特.米歇尔:我对女性友情有很多想法,
00:12
Pat Mitchell米切尔: So I was thinking思维
about female friendship友谊 a lot,
说起来,非常荣幸,我与这两位女士,
00:15
and by the way, these two women妇女,
00:18
I'm very honored荣幸 to say,
已经是老朋友了。
00:19
have been my friends朋友
for a very long time, too.
简.方达:是的,我们是。
00:22
Jane Fonda方达: Yes we have.
帕特.米歇尔:关于女性友情,
我读过塞万提斯说的一些话,
00:23
PM下午: And one of the things
that I read about female friendship友谊
00:27
is something that Cervantes塞万提斯 said.
他说:“你可以了解一个人的许多事情,”
00:28
He said, "You can tell
a lot about someone有人,"
在这里是指一个女人,
00:32
in this case案件 a woman女人,
“仅仅是通过观察她的友伴。”
00:33
"by the company公司 that she keeps保持."
所以,让我们由此开始。
00:35
So let's start开始 with --
(笑)
00:37
(Laughter笑声)
简.方达:我们有大麻烦了。
00:40
JFJF: We're in big trouble麻烦.
莉莉.托姆琳:给我拿杯水,我好渴。
00:41
Lily百合 Tomlin汤姆林: Hand me one of those waters水域,
00:43
I'm extremely非常 dry.
(笑声)
00:45
(Laughter笑声)
简.方达:你在浪费我们的时间,
00:53
JFJF: You're taking服用 up our time.
时间有限。
00:55
We have a very limited有限 --
莉莉.托姆琳:你就跟她说吧,不用管我。
00:56
LTLT: Just being存在 with her
sucks the life out of me.
(笑声)
00:59
(Laughter笑声)
简.方达:你没有被忽略。
01:02
JFJF: You ain't seen看到 nothing yet然而.
不管怎样——抱歉。
01:03
Anyway无论如何 -- sorry.
帕特.米歇尔:告诉我,
你们希望找一个什么样的朋友?
01:05
PM下午: So tell me, what do you
look for in a friend朋友?
莉莉.托姆琳:我寻找那些有幽默感的,
01:09
LTLT: I look for someone有人
who has a sense of fun开玩笑,
有勇气的,
01:12
who's谁是 audacious胆大,
直率的,有政治信仰的,
01:15
who's谁是 forthcoming即将到来, who has politics政治,
甚至是对地球有一点点激情的,
01:18
who has even a small scrap废料
of passion for the planet行星,
有分寸的,有正义感的,
01:23
someone有人 who's谁是 decent正经,
has a sense of justice正义
以及认为我是值得交往的。
01:26
and who thinks I'm worthwhile合算.
(笑)
01:28
(Laughter笑声)
(鼓掌)
01:30
(Applause掌声)
简.方达:今早我就在考虑这个问题,
01:34
JFJF: You know, I was thinking思维 this morning早上,
要是没有女性朋友们,
我甚至不知道我该做什么。
01:36
I don't even know what I would do
without my women妇女 friends朋友.
我要说,“我友故我在。”
01:39
I mean it's, "I have my friends朋友,
therefore因此 I am."
莉莉.托姆琳:(笑)
01:42
LTLT: (Laughter笑声)
简.方达:别取笑我,这是真的。
01:43
JFJF: No, it's true真正.
因为我有很多女性朋友,
所以我才有意义地存在。
01:45
I exist存在 because I have
my women妇女 friends朋友. They --
你是其中一个。
01:48
You're one of them.
我不太了解你。但不管怎样你就是。
01:49
I don't know about you. But anyway无论如何 --
(笑)
01:51
(Laughter笑声)
你要知道,她们让我更坚强,
更聪明,
01:52
You know, they make me stronger,
they make me smarter聪明,
更有勇气。
01:55
they make me braver勇敢.
有需要的时候她们会拍我的肩膀提醒我。
01:56
They tap龙头 me on the shoulder when I might威力
be in need of course-correcting当然,修正.
而且大多数都比我年轻很多。
02:01
And most of them are
a good deal合同 younger更年轻 than me, too.
你知道吗?我想说,这感觉很棒。
莉莉.托姆琳:谢谢。
02:04
You know? I mean, it's nice不错 --
LTLT: Thank you.
(笑)
02:06
(Laughter笑声)
简.方达:不,我真的这么认为。
其中包括你,听我说——
02:09
JFJF: No, I do, I include包括 you in that,
because listen, you know --
在晚年,仍然有人在身边并向对方学习,
是很棒的。
02:12
it's nice不错 to have somebody still around
to play with and learn学习 from
02:15
when you're getting得到 toward the end结束.
我会比你先度完余生。
02:17
I'm approaching接近 --
I'll be there sooner than you.
莉莉.托姆琳:
别这么说,我很高兴与你同行。
02:19
LTLT: No, I'm glad高兴 to have you
parallel平行 aging老化 alongside并肩 me.
(笑)
02:22
(Laughter笑声)
简.方达:我在给你引路。
02:24
JFJF: I'm showing展示 you the way.
(笑)
02:26
(Laughter笑声)
莉莉.托姆琳:是啊,你一直都在引路。
02:27
LTLT: Well, you are and you have.
帕特.米歇尔:在不断成长、
经历不同生活的旅程中,
02:29
PM下午: Well, as we grow增长 older旧的,
02:30
and as we go through通过
different不同 kinds of life's人生 journeys旅程,
你们是如何使友情保持活力?
02:33
what do you do to keep
your friendships友谊 vital重要 and alive?
莉莉.托姆琳:你必须经常使用——
02:38
LTLT: Well you have to use a lot of --
简.方达:我告诉你,她没有经常邀请我。
02:39
JFJF: She doesn't invite邀请 me over much,
I'll tell you that.
莉莉.托姆琳:你必须经常使用社交网络——
02:42
LTLT: I have to use a lot of social社会 media媒体 --
你现在要安静。所以——
02:44
You be quiet安静 now. And so --
(笑)
02:46
(Laughter笑声)
莉莉.托姆琳:我使用电子邮件和短信,
02:48
LTLT: And I look through通过 my emails电子邮件,
I look through通过 my texts文本
在清单中寻找我的朋友,
02:51
to find my friends朋友,
我会尽快答复她们,
02:52
so I can answer回答 them
as quickly很快 as possible可能,
因为我知道她们需要我的建议。
02:54
because I know they need my counsel法律顾问.
(笑)
02:57
(Laughter笑声)
她们需要我来支持,
03:00
They need my support支持,
因为大多数朋友是作家,
或者社会活动家,或者演员。
03:01
because most of my friends朋友
are writers作家, or activists活动家, or actors演员,
而你属于这全部三者,
03:04
and you're all three ...
还有其它许多可以描述的角色。
03:05
and a long string
of other descriptive描述的 phrases短语,
我会尽快跟你联系上,
03:09
and I want to get to you
as soon不久 as possible可能,
我想要你知道我一直在等候你。
03:13
I want you to know that I'm there for you.
简.方达:你会发表情符号吗?
03:15
JFJF: Do you do emojis表情符号?
莉莉.托姆琳:噢。。。
简.方达:没有?
03:17
LTLT: Oh ...
JFJF: No?
莉莉.托姆琳:那很麻烦。
简.方达:我很喜欢用表情符号。
03:19
LTLT: That's embarrassing尴尬.
JFJF: I'm really into emojis表情符号.
莉莉.托姆琳:我用文字表达我的——
03:21
LTLT: No, I spell拼写 out my --
我用文字表达我的开心、祝贺以及伤心。
03:23
I spell拼写 out my words of happiness幸福
and congratulations祝贺,
03:27
and sadness.
简.方达:你用文字表达——
03:29
JFJF: You spell拼写 it right out --
莉莉.托姆琳:用每个字母表达。
03:30
LTLT: I spell拼写 it, every一切 letter.
(笑)
03:32
(Laughter笑声)
简.方达:真是洁癖。
03:33
JFJF: Such这样 a purist纯粹的.
你要知道,我比你更好,
03:35
You know, as I've gotten得到 older旧的,
我也更清楚友情的重要,
03:37
I've understood了解 more
the importance重要性 of friendships友谊,
所以我实实在在地努力与朋友们往来——
而不过多浪费时间。
03:40
and so, I really make an effort功夫
03:42
to reach达到 out and make play dates日期 --
not let too much time go by.
我读很多书,
03:46
I read a lot
所以,莉莉也知道的,
03:48
so, as Lily百合 knows知道 all too well,
我会把喜欢的书送给朋友们。
03:50
my books图书 that I like,
I send发送 to my friends朋友.
莉莉.托姆琳:当知道我们今天要做这个谈话,
03:52
LTLT: When we knew知道 we would be here today今天
你送给我了很多关于妇女、女性友情的书,
03:54
you sent发送 me a lot of books图书
about women妇女, female friendships友谊,
我很好奇,到目前为止总共有多少相关的书籍,
以及进行了多少研究——
03:56
and I was so surprised诧异
to see how many许多 books图书,
04:00
how much research研究
has been doneDONE recently最近 --
简.方达:你喜欢吗?
莉莉.托姆琳:喜欢。
04:02
JFJF: And were you grateful感激?
LTLT: I was grateful感激.
(笑)
04:05
(Laughter笑声)
帕特.米歇尔:然后——
04:10
PM下午: And --
莉莉.托姆琳:等等,这很重要,
04:11
LTLT: Wait, no, it's really important重要
because this is another另一个 example
因为这是妇女被忽略、排斥、
轻视的又一个例证。
04:14
of how women妇女 are overlooked忽视,
put aside在旁边, marginalized边缘化.
虽然已经贡献了大量的时间,
但是实质上只进行了极少的研究。
04:18
There's been very little
research研究 doneDONE on us,
04:21
even though虽然 we volunteered自告奋勇 lots of times.
简.方达: 这是事实。
04:23
JFJF: That's for sure.
(笑)
04:24
(Laughter笑声)
莉莉.托姆琳:这很有吸引力,
并且你们都对它感兴趣。
04:26
LTLT: This is really exciting扣人心弦,
and you all will be interested有兴趣 in this.
哈佛医学院研究表明,
04:30
The Harvard哈佛 Medical School学校 study研究 has shown显示
女人拥有亲密的女性朋友,
04:32
that women妇女 who have
close female friendships友谊
就会更少地遭受伤痛——
04:37
are less likely容易 to develop发展 impairments障碍 --
与年龄相对应的身体伤痛,
04:40
physical物理 impairments障碍 as they age年龄,
而且会过的更加充实、愉快——
04:42
and they are likely容易 to be seen看到
to be living活的 much more vital重要, exciting扣人心弦 --
简.方达:活的更久——
04:48
JFJF: And longer --
莉莉.托姆琳:快乐的生活。
04:49
LTLT: Joyful快乐 lives生活.
简.方达:我们比男人年长5岁。
04:50
JFJF: We live生活 five years年份 longer than men男人.
莉莉.托姆琳:我想把这拿来换取喜悦。
04:52
LTLT: I think I'd trade贸易 the years年份 for joy喜悦.
(笑)
04:54
(Laughter笑声)
莉莉.托姆琳:最重要的是他们发现——
04:58
LTLT: But the most important重要
part部分 is they found发现 --
结果令人兴奋且不容置疑——
05:01
the results结果 were so exciting扣人心弦
and so conclusive确凿 --
研究人员发现,
05:04
the researchers研究人员 found发现
没有亲密的女性朋友对你的健康有害,
05:06
that not having close female friends朋友
is detrimental有害 to your health健康,
就如同吸烟或肥胖。
05:12
as much as smoking抽烟 or being存在 overweight超重.
简.方达:还有其它的——
05:15
JFJF: And there's something else其他, too --
莉莉.托姆琳:我说的是我要说的,
所以。。。
05:17
LTLT: I've said my part部分, so ...
(笑)
05:18
(Laughter笑声)
简.方达:好的,听听我要说的,
因为有一个补充。
05:19
JFJF: OK, well, listen to my part部分,
because there's an additional额外 thing.
因为他们只——
有几年、几十年——
05:23
Because they only --
for years年份, decades几十年 --
研究压力时,他们只研究男人,
05:25
they only researched研究 men男人 when they
were trying to understand理解 stress强调,
仅仅在最近他们才开始研究,
女性遭受压力时发生了什么,
05:30
only very recently最近 have they researched研究
what happens发生 to women妇女 when we're stressed强调,
而且事实表明,
当我们女性遭受压力时,
05:34
and it turns out
that when we're stressed强调 -- women妇女,
体内充满了催长素,
05:38
our bodies身体 get flooded by oxytocin催产素.
是能使人感觉良好、冷静、
降低压力的荷尔蒙。
05:42
Which哪一个 is a feel-good感觉不错, calming平静,
stress-reducing应力缓和 hormone激素.
当与女性朋友在一起时,
这种荷尔蒙也会增多。
05:45
Which哪一个 is also increased增加
when we're with our women妇女 friends朋友.
我实在觉得,
那是我们活得更久的原因。
05:50
And I do think that's one reason原因
why we live生活 longer.
并且我同情男人因为他们没有。
05:54
And I feel so bad for men男人
because they don't have that.
睾丸素的效果与催长素的相反。
05:56
Testosterone睾酮 in men男人
diminishes减少 the effects效果 of oxytocin催产素.
莉莉.托姆琳:当你跟我以及多丽
一起公司上班的时候,
06:01
LTLT: Well, when you and I
and Dolly玩具娃娃 made制作 "9 to 5" ...
简.方达:噢——
06:04
JFJF: Oh --
莉莉.托姆琳:那时我们实在很开心,
06:05
LTLT: We laughed笑了, we did,
we laughed笑了 so much,
我们发现我们有那么多
共同点以及不同点。
06:07
we found发现 we had so much in common共同
and we're so different不同.
她在这里,像好莱坞明星,
06:10
Here she is, like Hollywood好莱坞 royalty王权,
我像个底特律来的野孩子。
06:12
I'm like a tough强硬 kid孩子 from Detroit底特律,
(多丽的)田纳西一个贫穷村庄来的南部小孩,
06:14
[Dolly'sDolly的] a Southern南部的 kid孩子
from a poor较差的 town in Tennessee田纳西,
我们发现作为女性,
我们能够在那么的息息相通,
06:18
and we found发现 we were so in sync同步 as women妇女,
并且我们肯定——
06:22
and we must必须 have --
笑得那么开心——
我们肯定延长了至少十年的寿命。
06:23
we laughed笑了 -- we must必须 have added添加
at least最小 a decade onto our lifespans寿命.
简.方达:我想——
我们确实有很多共同点
06:29
JFJF: I think -- we sure
crossed越过 our legs a lot.
(笑)
06:32
(Laughter笑声)
你知道我在说什么吧。
06:34
If you know what I mean.
莉莉.托姆琳:
我想我们都知道你在说什么。
06:37
LTLT: I think we all know what you mean.
(笑)
06:39
(Laughter笑声)
帕特.米歇尔:
你现在就给我们增长了几十年的寿命。
06:41
PM下午: You're adding加入 decades几十年
to our lives生活 right now.
在简送给我们读的书当中,
关于女性友情,
06:44
So among其中 the books图书 that Jane
sent发送 us both to read on female friendship友谊
有一位我们非常崇敬的女性,
修女琼‧齐谛斯特,
06:49
was one by a woman女人 we admire欣赏 greatly非常,
Sister妹妹 Joan ChittisterChittister,
关于女性友情,
06:53
who said about female friendship友谊
他说女性朋友不只是社交活动,
06:55
that women妇女 friends朋友
are not just a social社会 act法案,
也是灵魂的活动。
06:59
they're a spiritual精神 act法案.
你们认为你们的朋友有想法吗?
07:01
Do you think of your friends朋友 as spiritual精神?
她们为你们的生活带来有想法的东西吗?
07:03
Do they add something
spiritual精神 to your lives生活?
莉莉.托姆琳:想法——
我真的也是这么认为的。
07:06
LTLT: Spiritual精神 -- I absolutely绝对 think that.
因为——特别是那些你已经认识很久了的,
07:10
Because -- especially特别 people
you've known已知 a long time,
已经相互陪伴很久的人们——
07:13
people you've spent花费 time with --
我能够在她们身上看到她们的本质,
07:14
I can see the spiritual精神
essence本质 inside them,
她们的亲和力,还有软弱的地方。
07:17
the tenderness压痛, the vulnerability漏洞.
在友情中存在爱,
以及爱的元素。
07:22
There's actually其实 kind of a love,
an element元件 of love in the relationship关系.
我看到了你们的灵魂深处。
07:26
I just see deeply into your soul灵魂.
帕特.米歇尔:你同意吗,简——
07:30
PM下午: Do you think that, Jane --
莉莉.托姆琳:我有特异功能。
07:31
LTLT: But I have special特别 powers权力.
简.方达:有各种各样的朋友,
07:34
JFJF: Well, there's all kinds of friends朋友.
有商业朋友和聚会朋友,
07:36
There's business商业 friends朋友,
and party派对 friends朋友,
我有很多这样的朋友。
07:38
I've got a lot of those.
(笑)
07:40
(Laughter笑声)
但是那些能生产催产素的友情——
07:42
But the oxytocin-producing催产素生产
friendships友谊 have ...
她们感觉不同是因为这打开了心扉,对吗?
07:47
They feel spiritual精神
because it's a heart opening开盘, right?
你们要知道,我们进行得很深入。并且——
07:51
You know, we go deep. And --
我发现,为我的好友我流了很多眼泪。
07:54
I find that I shed tears眼泪 a lot
with my intimate亲密 friends朋友.
不是因为感到悲伤,
而是为了她们感动。
08:01
Not because I'm sad伤心 but because
I'm so touched感动 and inspired启发 by them.
莉莉.托姆琳:
还有你知道你们中一人马上要死了。
08:06
LTLT: And you know one of you
is going to go soon不久.
(笑)
08:09
(Laughter笑声)
帕特.米歇尔:我们有两个人坐在这里,
莉莉,你说的是哪一个?
08:14
PM下午: Well, two of us are sitting坐在 here,
Lily百合, which哪一个 one are you talking about?
(笑)
08:19
(Laughter笑声)
我一直觉得,
当妇女们谈论她们的友情时,
08:20
And I always think, when women妇女
talk about their friendships友谊,
男人们总是有些迷惑,
08:23
that men男人 always look a little mystified迷惑.
你们觉得,男性友情与女性友情,
有什么不同?
08:26
What are the differences分歧, in your opinion意见,
08:29
between之间 men男人 friendships友谊
and women妇女 friendships友谊?
简.方达:有很多不同,
08:32
JFJF: There's a lot of difference区别,
我觉得我们必须同情男人,
08:34
and I think we have to have
a lot of empathy同情 for men男人 --
(笑)
08:37
(Laughter笑声)
他们没有我们所拥有的东西,
08:38
that they don't have what we have.
我觉得这也许是他们死得早的原因。
08:43
Which哪一个 I think may可能 be why they die sooner.
(笑)
08:45
(Laughter笑声)
我非常同情男人,
08:47
I have a lot of compassion同情 for men男人,
因为女人,没有开玩笑的,我们——
08:49
because women妇女, no kidding开玩笑, we --
女性友情,我们的友情是深植的,
我们相处的很深入。
08:53
women's女士的 relationships关系, our friendships友谊
are full充分 disclosure泄露, we go deep.
他们是启发性的,
08:59
They're revelatory启示的.
我们体会感性——
这是男人没有的。
09:01
We risk风险 vulnerability漏洞 --
this is something men男人 don't do.
比方说,我经常问你,“我做得好吗?”
09:06
I mean how many许多 times
have I asked you, "Am I doing OK?"
“我弄糟了吗?”
09:09
"Did I really screw up there?"
帕特.米歇尔:你做得很棒。
09:11
PM下午: You're doing great.
(笑)
09:13
(Laughter笑声)
简.方达:我的意思是,
我们与女性朋友们像这样提出问题 ,
09:14
JFJF: But I mean, we ask questions问题 like that
09:17
of our women妇女 friends朋友,
09:18
and men男人 don't.
但男人不会,
你们知道,人们认为女性友情是面对面的,
09:20
You know, people describe描述 women's女士的
relationships关系 as face-to-face面对面,
而男性友情是肩并肩的。
09:24
whereas men's男装 friendships友谊
are more side-by-side并排侧.
莉莉.托姆琳:
我觉得男人们经常并不会发泄情感,
09:27
LTLT: I mean most of the time
men男人 don't want to reveal揭示 their emotions情绪,
而是要隐藏他们的内心感受。
09:31
they want to bury埋葬 deeper更深 feelings情怀.
那是普遍、传统的看法。
09:33
I mean, that's the general一般,
conventional常规 thought.
他们宁愿回到男人的洞穴里,
看一场热门高尔乎球赛,
09:36
They would rather go off in their man cave洞穴
and watch a game游戏 or hit击中 golf高尔夫球 balls,
或谈论体育,或打猎,或汽车或做爱。
09:40
or talk about sports体育,
or hunting狩猎, or cars汽车 or have sex性别.
我想说的是,比如是这样更男人的行为。
09:45
I mean, it's just the kind of --
it's a more manly男子气 behavior行为.
简.方达:你是说——
莉莉.托姆琳:他们谈论性爱。
09:48
JFJF: You meant意味着 --
LTLT: They talk about sex性别.
我是说,他们可能会做爱,
09:51
I meant意味着 they might威力 have sex性别
如果他们能把某个人逮到他们男人的洞穴里——
09:52
if they could get somebody
in their man cave洞穴 to --
(笑)
09:55
(Laughter笑声)
简.方达:然而我发现一些有趣的事情,
你也知道的——
09:58
JFJF: You know something, though虽然,
that I find very interesting有趣 --
并且是心理学家最近才知道的——
10:01
and again, psychologists心理学家 didn't know this
until直到 relatively相对 recently最近 --
男人出生的时候与女人极其相像。
10:06
is that men男人 are born天生 every一切 bit
as relational相关的 as women妇女 are.
要是你看新生儿的电影,
10:09
If you look at films影片
of newborn新生 baby宝宝 boys男孩 and girls女孩,
就会发现男孩很像女孩,
10:13
you'll你会 see the baby宝宝 boys男孩
just like the girls女孩,
盯着妈妈的研究,
10:15
gazing凝视 into their mother's母亲 eyes眼睛,
你知道的,要求相互间的能量交流,
10:18
you know, needing需要 that relational相关的
exchange交换 of energy能源.
当妈妈看向别处,他们就会感到沮丧,
10:22
When the mother母亲 looks容貌 away,
they could see the dismay沮丧 on the child儿童,
甚至会哭出来。
10:27
even the boy男孩 would cry.
他们需要情感。
10:28
They need relationship关系.
所以问题是,随着年岁增长,
他们为什么变了?
10:30
So the question is why,
as they grow增长 older旧的, does that change更改?
答案是父权文化,
10:34
And the answer回答 is patriarchal重男轻女 culture文化,
它告诉男孩和年轻男人,
10:37
which哪一个 says to boys男孩 and young年轻 men男人
跟人建立联系及产生感情是女性化的;
10:40
that to be needing需要 of relationship关系,
to be emotional情绪化 with someone有人 is girly少女的.
并且一个真正的男人
不要去问方向或表达一个需求。
10:45
That a real真实 man doesn't ask
directions方向 or express表现 a need,
如果感觉不好,他们不会去看医生。
10:51
they don't go to doctors医生 if they feel bad.
他们不会要求帮助。
10:53
They don't ask for help.
我想饮用一段很喜欢的话,
10:55
There's a quote引用 that I really like,
“男人们对用'我们’代替‘我’而感到恐惧。”
10:56
"Men男人 fear恐惧 that becoming变得 'we''我们'
will erase抹去 his 'I''一世'."
你们知道的,这是男人的自我,
11:01
You know, his sense of self.
相对来说,女人的自我确是多样性的。
11:03
Whereas women's女士的 sense of self
has always been kind of porous多孔.
但是我们说的“我们”是我们基本的优雅,
11:07
But our "we" is our saving保存 grace恩典,
它使我们强大,
11:11
it's what makes品牌 us strong强大.
并不是说我们比男人更好,
11:14
It's not that we're better than men男人,
我们只是不需要证明男子气概。
11:15
we just don't have
our masculinity阳刚之气 to prove证明.
莉莉.托姆琳:然后——
11:18
LTLT: And, well --
简.方达:那时葛罗莉亚·斯坦能说的。
11:19
JFJF: That's a Gloria格洛丽亚 Steinem斯泰纳姆 quote引用.
所以我们能够表达我们的仁慈。
莉莉.托姆琳:我知道葛罗莉亚·斯坦能是谁。
11:21
So we can express表现 our humanity人性 --
LTLT: I know who Gloria格洛丽亚 Steinem斯泰纳姆 is.
简.方达:我了解你知道她的,
但是我想这是一个——
11:24
JFJF: I know you know who she is,
but I think it's a --
(笑)
11:27
(Laughter笑声)
别笑,我想这是一个了不起的引用。
11:29
No, but it's a great quote引用, I think.
我们不用比男人更好,
我们只是不需要证明男子气概。
11:31
We're not better than men男人, we just
don't have our masculinity阳刚之气 to prove证明.
那确实非常重要。
11:35
And that's really important重要.
莉莉.托姆琳:但是在社会文化中,
男人被教育地以适应男权社会。
11:36
LTLT: But men男人 are
so inculcated灌输 in the culture文化
11:39
to be comfortable自在 in the patriarchy父权制.
我们必须做些改变。
11:42
And we've我们已经 got to make
something different不同 happen发生.
简.方达:
女性友情就像是不断涌出的能量源泉。
11:45
JFJF: Women's女士的 friendships友谊
are like a renewable可再生 source资源 of power功率.
莉莉.托姆琳:是的,
这就是这个主题令人感兴趣的地方。
11:49
LTLT: Well, that's what's exciting扣人心弦
about this subject学科.
因为我们的友情——
11:52
It's because our friendships友谊 --
女性友情往上就是我们的闺蜜情感,
11:53
female friendships友谊
are just a hop to our sisterhood姐妹,
闺蜜感情有非常强大的力量奉献给世界——
11:58
and sisterhood姐妹 can be
a very powerful强大 force,
12:01
to give the world世界 --
使之变成本应该发展成的样子——
12:03
to make it what it should be --
变成人类真正需要的样子。
12:05
the things that humans人类 desperately拼命 need.
帕特.米歇尔:我们为什么要讨论这个,
12:08
PM下午: It is why we're talking about it,
因为女性友情是,
12:10
because women's女士的 friendships友谊 are,
像你说的,简,
12:12
as you said, Jane,
不断涌现的力量源泉。
12:13
a renewable可再生 source资源 of power功率.
我们要如何利用这个力量?
12:15
So how do we use that power功率?
简.方达:在世界上女性人数增长最快,
12:17
JFJF: Well, women妇女 are the fastest最快的 growing生长
demographic人口 in the world世界,
特别是年长的妇女。
12:21
especially特别 older旧的 women妇女.
如果利用好我们的能量,
我们就能够改变世界。
12:22
And if we harness马具 our power功率,
we can change更改 the world世界.
猜猜看会变什么样?我们必须改变。
12:26
And guess猜测 what? We need to.
(鼓掌)
12:28
(Applause掌声)
并且我们必须马上开始。
12:30
And we need to do it soon不久.
我们需要做的一件事情——
12:31
And one of the things
that we need to do --
作为女人我们能做的——
12:34
and we can do it as women妇女 --
首先,我们要设定好新的消费标准。
12:35
for one thing, we kind of set
the consumer消费者 standards标准.
要减少消费。
12:38
We need to consume消耗 less.
在西方世界里我们要减少消费,
12:41
We in the Western西 world世界
need to consume消耗 less
买东西时,我们要买当地生产的,
12:44
and when we buy购买 things, we need to
buy购买 things that are made制作 locally本地,
买食物时,要买当地种植的。
12:47
when we buy购买 food餐饮, we need to buy购买 food餐饮
that's grown长大的 locally本地.
我们需要卸下输电网,
12:50
We are the ones那些
that need to get off the grid.
不依赖于矿物燃料,
12:53
We need to make ourselves我们自己
independent独立 from fossil化石 fuels燃料.
以及矿物燃料公司,
12:59
And the fossil化石 fuel汽油 companies公司 --
Exxons公司和Shell Oils公司,
以及那些坏家伙——
13:01
the Exxons埃克森 and the Shell贝壳 Oils
and those bad guys --
因为他们威胁我们,
将会回到石器时代。
13:04
cause原因 they are --
13:05
are going to tell us that we can't do it
without going back to the Stone Age年龄.
众所周知,我们已经有了可选择的新能源,
13:09
You know, that the alternatives备择方案
just aren't quite相当 there yet然而,
并且那些家伙说的是错的。
13:12
and that's not true真正.
现在世界上很多公司主要依靠可再生能源,
并且发展得很好。
13:14
There are countries国家 in the world世界 right now
13:16
that are living活的 mostly大多 on renewable可再生
energy能源 and doing just fine.
13:19
And they tell us that if we do
wean断奶 ourselves我们自己 from fossil化石 fuel汽油
他们威胁说,要是脱离了化石燃料,
我们将会回到石器时代,
13:23
that we're going to be
back in the Stone Age年龄,
但事实上,如果我们开始使用可再生能源,
13:25
and in fact事实, if we begin开始
to use renewable可再生 energy能源,
不去开采北极,
不去开采——
13:30
and not drill钻头 in the Arctic北极,
and not drill钻头 --
莉莉.托姆琳:哎呀。
13:32
LTLT: Oh, boy男孩.
简.方达:不去开采阿尔伯塔焦油砂。
13:33
JFJF: And not drill钻头
in the Alberta阿尔伯塔 tar柏油 sands沙滩 --
对。
13:35
Right.
那将会是——
13:36
That we will be --
会变得更加民主,
有更多的工作和人口,
13:38
there will be more democracy民主
and more jobs工作 and more well-being福利,
并且将会由女性来领导。
13:41
and it's women妇女 that are
going to lead the way.
莉莉.托姆琳:或许我们有力量
发起第三波女权主义运动,
13:43
LTLT: Maybe we have the momentum动量
to start开始 a third-wave第三波 feminist女权主义者 movement运动
其中有在全世界的姐妹们。
13:48
with our sisterhood姐妹 around the world世界,
也有我们没见过的、
也可能一直都见不到的女士们,
13:50
with women妇女 we don't see,
women妇女 we may可能 never meet遇到,
我们由此加入到同一个行动中。
13:53
but we join加入 together一起 that way,
因为——
13:56
because --
亚里士多德说过——
13:57
Aristotle亚里士多德 said --
许多人——
13:59
most people --
要是没有男性朋友就会死。
14:01
people would die without male friendships友谊.
这里的主角是“男性”。
14:04
And the operative手术 word here was "male."
因为他们认为友情的平等存在于男性之间,
14:07
Because they thought that friendships友谊
should be between之间 equals等于
而女性却不享有平等——
14:10
and women妇女 were not considered考虑 equal等于 --
简.方达:希腊人甚至不相信我们有灵魂。
14:12
JFJF: They didn't think
we had souls灵魂 even, the Greeks希腊人.
莉莉.托姆琳:的确如此。
这显示亚里士多德多么无知。
14:15
LTLT: No, exactly究竟. That shows节目 you
just how limited有限 Aristotle亚里士多德 was.
(笑)
14:18
(Laughter笑声)
等等,这可是最重要的部分。
14:21
And wait, no, here's这里的 the best最好 part部分.
就像,男人确实需要女人。
14:23
It's like, you know,
men男人 do need women妇女 now.
地球需要女人。
14:27
The planet行星 needs需求 women妇女.
美国宪法需要女人。
14:29
The US Constitution宪法 needs需求 women妇女.
我们甚至不在宪法中。
14:31
We are not even in the Constitution宪法.
简.方达:你在提及平等权利宪法修正案。
14:34
JFJF: You're talking about
the Equal等于 Rights Amendment修订.
莉莉.托姆琳:对。
14:37
LTLT: Right.
大法官金斯伯格说这样说过——
14:38
Justice正义 Ginsberg金斯伯格 said something like --
每条宪法条款都是在二战结束之后写的,
14:43
every一切 constitution宪法 that's been written书面
since以来 the end结束 of World世界 War战争 IIII
包括妇女公民权利平等的条款,
14:47
included包括 a provision规定 that made制作 women妇女
citizens公民 of equal等于 stature身材,
但是实际上我们并不平等。
14:52
but ours我们的 does not.
所以我们恰好可以从这里着手。
14:54
So that would be a good place地点 to start开始.
她非常平和地说了这个——
14:56
Very, very mild温和 --
简.方达:对。
14:58
JFJF: Right.
(鼓掌)
14:59
(Applause掌声)
性别平等,就像一个潮流,
15:02
And gender性别 equality平等, it's like a tide浪潮,
会掀起所有的船,不仅仅是女性。
15:04
it would lift电梯 all boats, not just women妇女.
帕特.米歇尔:需要新的角色模范来
为大家示范,
15:06
PM下午: Needing孤男寡女 new role角色 models楷模
on how to do that.
如何结交朋友,
15:09
How to be friends朋友,
如何重新看待我们的能力。
15:10
how to think about our power功率
in different不同 ways方法,
作为消费者,
15:13
as consumers消费者,
作为世界公民,
15:15
as citizens公民 of the world世界,
正是由此,简和莉莉成为我们的模范,
15:16
and this is what makes品牌 Jane and Lily百合
为示范了地久天长的友谊,
15:19
a role角色 model模型 of how
women妇女 can be friends朋友 --
15:21
for a very long time,
即使他们什么时候突然有了分歧
(也仍然是我们的模范)。
15:23
and even if they occasionally偶尔 disagree不同意.
谢谢。
15:25
Thank you.
谢谢两位。
15:28
Thank you both.
(鼓掌)
15:29
(Applause掌声)
简.方达:谢谢。
15:30
JFJF: Thanks谢谢.
莉莉.托姆琳:谢谢大家。
15:35
LTLT: Thank you.
简.方达:谢谢大家。
15:36
JFJF: Thank you.
(鼓掌)
15:38
(Applause掌声)
Translated by Shoudong He
Reviewed by Yinchun Rui

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About the speakers:

Jane Fonda - Actor and activist
Jane Fonda has had three extraordinary careers (so far): Oscar-winning actor, fitness guru, impassioned activist.

Why you should listen

Jane Fonda is an actor, author, producer and activist supporting environmental issues, peace and female empowerment. She founded the Georgia Campaign for Adolescent Pregnancy Prevention, and established the Jane Fonda Center for Adolescent Reproductive Health at  Emory. She cofounded the Women’s Media Center, and sits on the board of V-Day, a global effort to stop violence against women and girls.

Fonda's remarkable screen and stage career includes two Best Actress Oscars, an Emmy, a Tony Award nomination and an Honorary Palme d’Or from the Cannes Film Festival. Offstage, she revolutionized the fitness industry in the 1980s with Jane Fonda’s Workout — the all-time top-grossing home video. She has written a best-selling memoir, My Life So Far, and Prime Time, a comprehensive guide to living life to the fullest.

More profile about the speaker
Jane Fonda | Speaker | TED.com
Lily Tomlin - Comedian and actor
Lily Tomlin has been honored by the Kennedy Center and awarded the Mark Twain Prize -- and she's still making vital, hilarious comedy.

Why you should listen

Throughout her extraordinary career, Lily Tomlin has won seven Emmys; a Tony for her one-woman Broadway show, Appearing Nitely; a second Tony for Best Actress; a Drama Desk Award and an Outer Critics' Circle Award for her one-woman performance in Jane Wagner’s The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe; a Grammy for her comedy album, This Is a Recording; and two Peabody Awards, the first for the ABC television special, Edith Ann’s Christmas: Just Say Noël, and the second for narrating and executive producing the HBO film, The Celluloid Closet. In 2003, she received the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor, and in December 2014 she was the recipient of the prestigious Kennedy Center Honors in Washington DC.

She made her film debut in Robert Altman's Nashville, and gave a generation-defining performance alongside Dolly Parton and Jane Fonda in the workplace revenge comedy 9 to 5.

More profile about the speaker
Lily Tomlin | Speaker | TED.com